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Mariners
Hey Yoop, I do not think the Mariners have enough to get even one of Granderson or Jackson, unless a 3rd team is involved. I see the Yankees and the only club that has enough tradable parts on their own to get both Grandy and EJ in the same deal. Austin Jackson, Montero, Phillip Hughes and one other prospect would do it. We put Austin in as the starting CF, Montero shares catching duties with Laird [Alvia gets one more year seasoning, he needs it] and Hughes is either in the pen or the starting rotation, depending upon how the injured pitchers do in ST. If the Yankees do not want to part with Montero, I make them take Guillen in the deal.
AFL Championship
TD, Weinhardt looks ready for the Tiger roster in 2010. Do you think Oliver could hang in the Tiger pen in 2010? Satterwhite? With Perry and Ni already established in the Pen, our relief corps is getting a whole lot younger. I offer Arby to Rodney and Lyon, hoping they decline and part ways. Throw the competition wide open for the closer role and use 2010 as an evaluation year. If Jensen does not get drafted via rule 5 [I bet the Padres will snag him], then at least two more of the youngsters should be in the pen. I would release Miner and Willis and start the movement to youth in 2010. If Crosby and Oliver do well in the minors this year, I bring both of them up at the trade deadline to get them comfortable at the MLB level.
replies
If teams do not want to give proper value for Grandy, then keep him. Too bad we still have legendary Lloyd as our hitting coach. Given a top level hitting instructor, Grandy would return to 2007 form. Grandy has regressed each and every year hitting guru Lloyd has been at the helm. Of course, the Leyland lovers on here do not connect the wonderful coaching staff we have to JL's ability to evaluate talent and coaches. We probably have the worst 3rd base coach, the worst hitting coach in baseball along with a lower tier manager. You could put Pa Kettle behind the wheel of the fastest race car on the track and he wont win it. You put tarlung behind the Detroit Tigers and we wont win it. ------------ Book it.
Jackson
Right on Paw, I am with you on EJ. If EJ is traded without a comparable pitcher to replace him then the Tigers really have no chance to contend in 2010. Having said that, If EJ is traded then break the whole thing up and start over pointing to the 2012 season as the push year.
replies
Big Paw, Grandy is worth more then Castro. All of this talk like these prospects from the Mariners are the second coming makes me sick. None of those suspects mentioned in a possible trade with Seattle have done anything, or have more skills then anyone currently in the Tiger system. At least Vitters and Castro would be in the top ten in our prospects list. I do not think any of those Mariner prospects would rate in the top ten in the Tiger system. Grandy and EJ are all-stars with excellent contracts for God's sake. With a decent batting coach Grandy will find his touch again. I think JL rode EJ a little too hard in the first half with those high pitch count games and that is why he tired down the stretch. EJ has improved every year he has been in MLB. Unless the Tigers get a huge package [that Mariner crap is not a huge package] for Grandy and EJ, they have to keep them.
The Tigers win 90 games
You are right in that there is no guarantee that it would have resulted in more runs; however, you are wrong to say it is not a legit arguement, it is. Logical reasoning would say that there is potential in my arguement. Unless stated as a fact, it is opinion like most of what we say here. Most people on this forum have posts that make sense in one way or another. I admit, I am very harsh on Leyland [because I am a diehard Tiger fan] so if you disregard the upper 25% of my harshness, JL is still a slightly below average manager and his career record [a large enough sample] shows this.
The Tigers win 90 games
Marc, I am saying that over the course of a season, by moving Miggy to the 3 hole, he gets a few extra at bats over the season as well as potentially hitting with Polly on base rather then having the rally killer 240 hitter in front of him making the 3rd out. By putting Grandy in the 4 hole with his power and Miggy getting on base like he did, would have also generated more runs over the course of the season. Having Inge hitting in the 5 hole when he was hot [and he was hot right out of the gates in April] in the first half, hitting behind Grandy [4th] would also have resulted in more runs scored in the first half at least. I agree, a lot of hitters let us down; however, synergizing your lineup would have gotten more "blood out of the turnip" if you will. JL, went with the same pathetic lineup almost the entire year. Most baseball experts would agree, that you put your best hitter in the 3 hole. A manager that I respect, LaRussa, does that right? Very few of the Tiger hitters were consistent enough to follow the same JL non-thinking mans formula the entire year; therefore, the lineup would have had to be changed every now and again, but JL did not do this properly. When Maggs starting to hit for average well, and Inge started falling off then another change would have been due. JL is simply not capable of doing this. It takes a top notch manager to get this current crop of Tigers to mess and win at a championship rate [95 wins a year]and JL is not that manager.
The Tigers win 90 games
TD, I know you are not a supporter of JL, and that you and I are pretty close in our thinking of ole smokey; however, JL had no other choice but to use Rodney as the Closer, a monkey could have made that decision. Who else would he have used, Lyon [he was god awful in April], Zumaya [he was still hurt]? To give a Major League Manager credit for making such an obivous and easy decsion, leading to as many wins as the losses he caused is not an equal argument. JL is a slightly below average manager. To have a consistent winner, you need a top level championship decision making manager. Socisia is one, the new Yankee manager has shown he can win with two differen clubs, the Red Sox manager consistently makes good decisions, while JL has shown that he rarely wins [championships] with any club.
The Tigers win 90 games
Marc, but we did have a legit player to hit #3, his name is Miguel Cabrerra. By moving Miggy to the 3 hole behind an improving season of Polly would certainly have generated more runs. Miggy was a #3 hitter for the Marlins. By mid-season is was obvious that Raburn's bat was reliable, he even showed success in the lead-off spot. As frustrated as we were about players not playing up to their paychecks offensively, some of them could have been moved around to synergize the lineup better. Raburn, Polly, Miggy, Granderson, Inge in the first 5 spots certainly would have produced more runs in the first half of the season then what JL's wonderful lineups did. Sitting Grandy against the top lefties early on certainly would have generated more runs as well. I agree, a lot of our hitters did not hit up to their paychecks, our manager did not manage up to his either.
The Huffer Was Confused
Fly Dog, in the words of the incredibly incompetent Dick MC -------- you sir are bordering on stalking of ole smokey lol. Fly, I totally agree with you brother.
The Tigers win 90 games
So Marc, having a sub 240 hitter hitting in the 3 hole most of the year did not contribute in anyway to losing at least 5 games throughout the year? Putting Raburn into the game in April against Anaheim minutes after he got off of the cross country flight so that he could committ two errors in right field which led to the loss that day [I was at that game]did not contribute to the Tigers not winning 5 more games?
The Tigers win 90 games
Chris D, You could say the same thing about the Willis experiment. If Willis were not brought back [and got lucky against the Rangers that one game] to pitch all those games and contribute to the loss of mojo the Tigers could have won 90 games. If JL did not have all of his bone headed lineups, pitching changes and in game execution gaffs the Tigers could have won 93-95 games.
Added to the 40 today
Hey TD, I think Jensen will definately be taken in the Rule 5.
Kevets
Thats a very valid point John Zee. Save for the Willis and Leyland extensions, all of those others can be logically debated to have been good given the market conditions at that time --------------- steroid era contracts. The baseball landscape has shifted post steroid era and those contracts were signed prior to the shift, or at least the known effects of the shift became apparent.
Tiger Free Agents
I would rather they sign Lyon as opposed to Rotney, but in all cases I would rather have the two draft picks as well as the two draft picks for Polanco. The Tigers need to reestablish their foundation with youth first before they waste money trying to contend. I would be ok with throwing in the towel for 2010, getting rid of the bad contracts and start the process all over in 2011. Even in 2011, I do not want the Tigers to go out and spend all of their newly found payroll flexibilty after the 2010 season, hold some of it back for the trade deadline as well as after the 2011 season. Point to 2012 as the push year, because by then we will know which of the youts can hang in the MLB and which ones we need to replace. If the Cubs were to give us Vitters, Castro and Cashner for Grandy -------------- I would do that. I would see if the Yankees would give us Montero [catcher], Austin Jackson, and Phil Hughes for Jackson & Grandy [under this scenario the Tigers could sign a 3rd baseman and SS in the FA market post 2010]. Part of me; however, would rather see Jackson and Grandy traded to the National League so that they are not competing against us down the road. I let Lyon and Rodney walk and bring up Weinhardt and Satterwhite. I throw the closer position open to competition in ST and just go with the flow. The Tigers really need to retool and it starts with rebuilding the weak and crumbling foundation with youth. If Miggy stays then so be it, build it around Miggy and JV/RP.
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