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A Reason For Polanco
Atta boy, Yoop. Classy and "saintly" as usual. Don't read my posts, then. Shouldn't be hard - one post a week in between yours and Buck's. Sorry I interrupted, lol.
A Reason For Polanco
"The sainted Placido Polanco" ???
You know, for a guy who has "sainted" a guy like Miguel Cabrera for his blah, blah, blah stats, you really shouldn't be taking a sneaky snide-swipe at anyone who admires Polanco. And if you're comparing character and what it means to be a great teammate, perhaps "sainted" actually could be used if you're comparing Polanco to a guy like Cabrera.
I don't think anyone has "sainted" Polanco. Instead, they simply see a professional ballplayer who has been a steady .300 hitter during his 12-year MLB career, and we've watched him every day batting 2nd and playing 2B as a Tiger for 4.5 years. He's made an average of 4 errors per year and has been very good and very steady on defense. He's been one of the very few hitters on the Tigers that can do what he does with the bat, both hitting for average and a very unselfish player by swinging and making contact when his manager has asked him to to move runners. And more often than not, Polanco has been clutch at the plate when tipping moments of games are on the line. Saintly? Perhaps not. A two-way all-round player that has shown excellence in his role as a Tiger? I'd say yes.
Maybe his time is up as a Tiger, and maybe there are finances to be considered, and maybe he's on the doorstep of the downside of his career, and maybe a guy from AA named Sizemore will take his place at 2B and do well.... No one really knows. But people love Polanco and respect what he's done as a Tiger - and it's well-deserved. Like Woody just said, and many other before him, Polanco has proven himself. Let's give him his due - and anyone who respects what he's done.
Tiger Trade Stuff
Hey CD. Most of the stuff I hear goes in one ear and out the other - I'll believe it when I see it. And it would seem to me, like you allude to, discussions about different players are somewhat normal. Plus, the Tigers are in the mode where they should listen to and try to discover any options that might be out there.
However, it would be very hard for me to believe the Tigers would trade Curtis Granderson based on the make-up of the team. Who would play CF? And to say the Tigers need to put a premium on CF defense is putting it mildly when you look at Comerica Park and who is playing LF and RF next to Granderson. And giving up a LH'ed stick in the line-up on a team that has been begging for LH'ers to play 81 games in Comerica?
Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.
From Jason Beck
When rumors started up last fall about the Tigers potentially trading Magglio Ordonez, team president/general manager Dave Dombrowski eventually said that they weren't looking to trade him. He also said, however, that they would listen on just about any player another club would call him about.
Fast forward to now, with the Tigers reportedly at least listening to interest on Edwin Jackson, and Dombrowski isn't saying much, which is telling.
"Do not have anything to say about any trade conversations other than to say we have visited with many clubs during the meetings, which is customary," Dombrowski said in an email Wednesday morning from the GM meetings in Chicago.
He did add, however, that they will have to make some tough decisions this offseason, particularly with the number of free agents they have.
Jackson, an All-Star in the first half of the season before struggling down the stretch, is a tough decision, particularly if trading him can net him from help in return at shortstop or in the bullpen.
That doesn't mean it's a payroll decision or a sign of slashing ahead. There's a difference between cutting payroll and swapping it, particularly if any deal would end up even in salary. There's also a difference between cutting a salary and selling high on a player.
At this point, Dombrowski said, nothing is close to a deal on anything.
Polanco
I disagree, Kevets. The teams with the higher payrolls sign players that don't pan out, just like the Tigers. Only they have more money to sign another player a patch the hole. Or hedge their bets by signing a guy like Polanco, and having a guy like Sizemore available.
Plus, when you have enough money, you sign two-way cream-of-the-crop players like Teixeira, and it's harder to make a mistake that way. Teams like the Royals can't make mistakes, or they're crushed for years.
Polanco
I'm with you, TigerDog. 90 wins coming out of spring training. They need to put together a team that can win 90 games. If you're telling me you can't afford Polanco, or Rodney because you're over-loaded with Cabrera and Maggs, then don't sign guys like that. I'd rather have more B+ players than one Giant. Sell more pizzas in China. Sign Polanco and get a bullpen we can be proud of.
Good Info?
Troyman, if you're listening to sports talk for entertainment, then have at it. But if you're listening to sports talk radio for "good information" from a disc-jockey or two, then you're better off going into an elevator and listening to the muzak.
Polanco
Okay, Yoop - now your last post makes more sense and is much more respectful of Polanco's worth to the team. And your position is probably much closer to the Tiger's position than mine. But still, I'd sign him to play another year and see what happens. Like 53steve just said, Polanco is a known quanity, and he's a good fit for the Tigers if they want to put a team together in 2010 to win a winnable division.
Forgive me if I have a chip on my shoulder as a baseball fan to watch teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox sign players like Polanco to stockpile their chances to win now - and win later. I want the Tigers to play both sides, too.
Your logic makes sense regarding the Tiger's position at 2B at this particular crossroad. But Polanco strikes me as a player that would be signed by a team to win this year if he were a peice they needed. Like the Cubs, or someone that has invested in players and needs a piece or two to win. Declining skills, or not, Polanco is still a very solid baseball player that brings alot to the table. But it has to be the right table, and that much I realize.
Fans all have different motivations for following their teams, and buying a ticket to a game. Who do they want to see? What excites them? Well, for me, Polanco is a guy I would buy a ticket to see play. In the field, at bat, the match-ups and situations - can he move the runner here? Will the pitcher try to jam him? Will he adjust? Will his manager have him hit-and-run anyway? All those things are fun for me to watch. Others love a guy like Cabrera, who at any moment can bash one off a light-tower. With respect for that accomplishment, I wouldn't buy a ticket to see Cabrera's all-around game. But that's just me - no better or worse than any other fan. Just different motivations.
Thus, it's easy to see why I'd sign Polanco. I think the Tigers need Polanco to win this year. I want the Tigers to win this year. They don't have any hitters like him in the line-up. And on defense, he's as steady as they come. He's been a great fit for Detroit, and can still be a great fit - and win games.
And for this particular moment, I don't care about the payroll. If you lop Polanco off the roster and keep Maggs instead, then you're just a .500 team. I want a winning team. Just like the Yankees and the Dodgers. Sign 'em all.
Polanco
"...overall he wasn't all that good last year."
Ah, that's the great thing about opinions - everyone has them. Doesn't mean any of them are right. But just for the heck of it, let's look at Polanco's "stats" from last season:
Batting average = .285 (pretty decent)
At-bats = 618 (pretty steady for an over-the-hill player)
Runs scored = 82 (again, pretty decent)
RBI's = 72 (not too shabby for his role and circumstances - many clutch RBI's)
HR's = 10
K's = 46
Walks = 36 (he doesn't walk, K, or hit HR's - he puts the ball in play)
Average with RISP = .310
Polanco may not be part of the Tiger's long-range plans for the future, but that wasn't my point. When you fill out the line-up card on Opening Day, it would be nice to write Polanco's name in batting 2nd and playing 2B. I'd take what he gives the team on the field (and off) any day of the week. A very solid performance.
Too old? Fading? Might be a bad signing? Don't care. As I said, if you're like the Bud Selig approved New York Yankees, or RedSox, or Dodgers, then you sign him - and if it doesn't work out, then you try Sizemore.
Polanco
I'm with you, Skip. I'd give Polanco a nice two-year deal just to get him for one more year. Want to be like the big boys? That's how they do it.
Polanco, even minus the step that everyone seems to say he's lost, is still a top-notch player with all-around skills. Not just a hitter, not just a defensive player - he does everything you need for the role he has on the team. Looking at the Tiger's line-up, he fills a role that we don't have many of. He handles the bat like a master, and who else do you really want up to bat in a clutch situation? He doesn't K, he sprays the ball around, and he's about the only hitter that his manager can feel truly confident about when he flashes a hit-and-run sign.
On defense? Two errors. Think about it. One before the All-Star break, one after? How many double plays were turned because of the steadiness of Polanco? They were the Tigers best friend this year - especially Rodney's. And remember, anyone might lose a half-step playing next to Cabrera - that's not exactly a fielder's dream to line up next to him out there.
You never know what's around the corner. Sizemore, the heir apparent, busted his ankle in the off-season. What could happen during the regular season?
It's not my payroll. Go for it. Spend money on quality, all-around players that do everything and don't have to be platooned. Even if Sizemore is ready, I'd rather be like the Yankees and stockpile quality players. Dump someone else's contract is my vote - for whatever that's worth.
A different view
The N.Y. Yankees just won the World Series with insane, unbridled spending. The Red Sox, the Dodgers, and the Mets all failed with the same philosophy. Some of their signings contributed, some went bust, and most still haunt their payroll for years.
Welcome to the wacky world of baseball. The Tigers are just playing with the big boys now, and their flaws are on a grander scale. Their GM is no different than the others.
The difference are owners that change their payroll limits each year vs. others that keep spending. The Yankees, for example, ate Carl Pavano like an after-dinner mint.
Quickie
Hello TFD'ers - what up?
I admit I've been too busy to watch every pitch of the post-season games, but I couldn't help but thinking how Verlander, or Rodney, or even Ryan Raburn would look on TV in the post-season, and how the Tigers would fare against some of these guys. The shortened series with Verlander, Jackson, and Porcello - my first thoughts early on were that the Tigers would have a decent shot.
One thing for sure (at least in my mind) is that the Tigers would have played better defense than most of what I'm seeing. Even down to the little things in each game. On offense, I don't think the Tigers would be able to keep up with the line-ups we're seeing - especially in the World Series.
I thought the WS would go 7 games with the Yankees winning it, mainly because their bullpen is deeper - and that was if the games didn't get pushed back due to weather.
Good to log on and see some old friends on here. We're not trading Verlander, CD. Forget about it.
One old news comment I'd like to make, repeating a conversation from a good friend who follows baseball regarding the Carlos Guillen comments he made to MLB.com. I love Carlos, but I agreed with my friend when he said, "Yo, Carlos. If you're not happy with the role you've been given by default, you're free to come into the front office and tear up your contract any time - and we'll let you go play full-time wherever you want. Just let us know, pal."
The Yankees better win this thing quick, or the three-days rest strategy could give their manager three years rest.
Adios for now.
Losing my Mind
"It's not the destination, but the journey."
Tiger MVP's, 2009
TD, you're joking, right? Cabrera the Tiger's MVP?
First of all, it would have to be someone on the pitching staff - Justin Verlander for sure, or maybe Fernando Rodney.
Secondly, after his "point two-six" stunt that was uncovered, to award Cabrera any kind of crown (other than a dunce crown) would be ridiculous. Cabrera had a numbers year. And that was a big fat period at the end of that sentence.
Lastly, these kinds of awards don't mean a whole lot, anyway.
Positive Vibrations
2009 had many great story lines in a unique season of drama. One of them was Justin Verlander.
Verlander came to the Tigers as a cool dude stud, highly drafted with great expectations. But many times the hype heaped on young players is mistaken for accomplishment, and many times it overwhelms what these players actually do. But ever since Verlander barely won the 5th spot in 2006's rotation, he's shown that he can deliver.
That's not ignoring his rough spots - the second half of last season especially. And then under the presssure of having to "bounce back" this year or be written off by some, he had a 9.00 ERA in April, and people were annointing Armando Galarraga as the "Ace" of the staff.
But after that, Verlander took front and center in the Tiger's rotation, and as the season went on he became more and more dominant on the mound. Leading the league in strikeouts, maturing as a pitcher using all his stuff, mixing speeds and his location, Verlander became a true "Ace" right before our eyes. He was quite a story.
As I watched him on September 29th in an epic pressure game (the 2nd game of the Twins double-header that night, with first place in the balance) I couldn't help but think he had come full circle, and gutted out a very Jack Morris-like performance to get his team the win. He faced the moment and took it all on. I thought, wow, what a way to end the season. Little did I know that he would be called upon again for an encore must-win performance 5 days later, the last day of the year. Again, he came up big under pressure.
That was the last we saw of Justin in 2009. But he pitched with the weight of being the one guy the Tigers counted on and had to have, and lived up to it all. And even surpassed those lofty expectations at times.
Next year will bring even more expectations to live up to - that's just the way the general media works. But we'll leave that for next spring. For now, Justin Verlander had one heck of a season, and he stepped into the veteran role that most had him destined for. Not an easy task.
I tip my hat to the Cool Dude Stud. Justin, you were pretty cool to follow this year. And I'm sure glad you're a Tiger.
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