| Jump to bottom |
teacher pay
"For arguements sake lets use a district x. District x has 1,200 teachers times the 65,000 you have 78 million in teacher salary, pension, benefits. District x budget is 185 million. 85% of the budget goes to "STAFF", thats about 160 million. You can draw your own conclusions, my conclusion is far too much money is being spent outside the classroom yet people like to blame the problems on those inside the classroom."
ITK, Brownstown, MI
You are so right. People throw out that 85% figure and swear it is the truth based on groups like the Mackinac Center who is bent on breaking not just the teachers, but public schools. I ran into one of these folks because my kids attended one of the "elite" schools and they tried to spin the stats I threw at them about scores, colleges, etc., were a result of only my kids and not the teachers. Talk about an agenda?! Like I've posted previously, people think teachers have some kind of magic wand that they can wave and fix everything, yet many ignore the finances of the district and want to absolve all parents of any responsibility for their kids in an effort to blame teachers. We really have our priorities messed up! And all people like Nolan Finley and some of you want to do is blame the MEA, the teachers and anyone else they can get to rip apart the public schools. Yeah, I'm sure if we just stopped paying all the taxes that would make everyone rich and bring all these companies back from China. Get real people!!!
Dump on Teachers III
"So we continue to pay for poor performance and listen to teacher after teacher blame kids, parents, socio-economic status, and every other excuse you can think of except themselves when students fail. Fire many, cut salaries of others, open contracts and reduce costs, and finally save programs for kids-not teacher benefits."
opine4utoo, wayne, mi
You are so misguided it isn't even funny. First, you can't just fire people and open contracts. There are these things called LAWS- ever heard of them? You'd be paying back the teachers and then it would be open season on any industry that has contracts (with interest I might add). Secondly, as I've noted in previous posts, for you to blow off socio-economic status and home life is just your excuse to blame teachers. Please don't tell me if a student that has both parents and comes from an upper-middle class home doesn't already have a HUGE advantage over a student who comes from a broken home and a low socio-economic background? You are ignorant beyond all belief! You can take the best teachers in the world and make them work for free and they will do little to help those kids succeed because they are behind the 8-ball big time! You want something that is purely unrealistic and you are living in a fantasy world (that will cost money either way).
To prove my point, watch the movie Freedom Writers with Hillary Swank who plays Erin Gruwell. She taught in a tough economic setting and got results (she over-dedicated herself as some of you would want). Do you know what happened to Mrs. Gruwell? She got burned out and left after 3 years. That's exactly what I want- teacher burnout. Even I'm warning you guys, you open up the schools like you want to the "open market" and then watch that divide grow between the haves and have-nots. True there is room to reform, but taking a sledge-hammer approach will only anger parents and make those of us that live in excellent districts really laugh at the rest of you...(not to mention we'd be irate if you wanted our teachers too, you know, the ones that get our AP kids to pass almost every exam and get a ton of college credit). Fix your own backyards/neighborhoods first before you talk about reform...besides if you want Jaime Escalante's, you have to PAY FOR THEM! They don't come free or cheap...
Dump on Teachers III
"high degree of dedication and professionalism "
rd248, livonia, mi
And you are happy these people are paid nothing or could work for "free". That statement also is full of something I'd rather not repeat on this forum. Yes, I've heard that too, but to assume that doesn't go on in COPORATE AMERICA and beyond is either naive on your part or you are one of those people who believe that teachers have to be PERFECT. Why don't you get on a soap box and complain about that in the coporate world? It seems you might have been one those Type A folks... not many teacher friends, eh?
And please spare me on the IB nonsense. It's AP wrapped up in a different package. Besides, all this education talk is pointless given the fact that you could graduate and be the smartest person in the world coming out of Harvard or MIT and a company can still lay you off because you cost money. So make your own invention, move it to be made in China, and bring it back to the US where no one has money to buy it. Yeah, that makes sense. You see, there are bigger issues here at work and yet you rail about the teachers because they must have picked on you. You clearly exhibit those traits....
:-) (as my kids would text, who by the way are doing really well after going to PUBLIC SCHOOLS, LOL)
Dump on Teachers III
rd248, livonia, mi
So it took me pressing you to admit that there are public schools that are doing a good thing. Look, my thing is that teachers need to be paid- period. Yes, some are bad. Yes, taxes is the way that they are paid. Yes, there are problems in the public schools. BTW, IB is no different than AP and costs a lot more money (yes, something people like you will not spend).
Lastly, I agree there are teachers in private schools that are able to TEACH because they have less things to deal with than in public schools and certain students can be removed easily there. My point is that you have people calling for teachers to take cuts, but I never hear of lawyers, doctors, etc., taking cuts.
I wish there was an easy way to fix things, but I got news for you, you open up the schools to "the open market," just wait and see the gap between the haves and have-nots grow (because it all comes back to money)
BTW, how is that teacher pension serving you now???
Dump on Teachers III
rd248, livonia, mi
So it took me pressing you to admit that there are public schools that are doing a good thing. Look, my thing is that teachers need to be paid- period. Yes, some are bad. Yes, taxes is the way that they are paid. Yes, there are problems in the public schools. BTW, IB is no different than AP and costs a lot more money (yes, something people like you will not spend).
Lastly, I agree there are teachers in private schools that are able to TEACH because they have less things to deal with than in public schools and certain students can be removed easily there. My point is that you have people calling for teachers to take cuts, but I never hear of lawyers, doctors, etc., taking cuts.
I wish there was an easy way to fix things, but I got news for you, you open up the schools to "the open market," just wait and see the gap between the haves and have-nots grow (because it all comes back to money)
BTW, how is that teacher pension serving you now???
Dump on Teachers III
"I find the musings of UMfireCarr amusing, to say the least. This person is obviously a teacher who, as we all can see, is posting while he should be teaching. Sure am glad my children went to a private school. Teachers are superior with an education far above what is taught in public schools.
rd248, livonia, mi"
Of course I am. I guess everyone is according to your logic you opposes your view point. So parents of children are not smart, or are we all closet teachers??? What a ridiculous statement. You do realize many of "those" teachers who acquired quite a bit of logic were students at one time too (many dare I say in public school, even many of your private school teachers). I guess parents like me who had their children walk onto two major university campuses as sophomores instead of freshman because of their PUBLIC SCHOOL AP TEACHERS are a threat to your argument (BIG TIME!!!) Take off your ideological glasses and wake up... you wouldn't even pay those teachers in private schools if you thought they were doing a good job. Spare me your hypocrisy...
BTW, news-flash, many of the private school teachers are TRYING to get in to public schools because they pay so well there. What a joke....
Dump on Teachers III
"Private schoolers and home schoolers do as well as or in many cases better than their public school counterparts on standardized tests, and with a lot less money."
That is not true across the board. First, public schools have to take EVERYBODY! They can't be selective as private schools and worry about 1-5 kids as a home schooler. Second, many of the AP kids in public schools (not all) OUTPERFORM you precious private and home school kids. The College Board can confirm this for you all (you know, the group that keeps track of all the results for the colleges). So it's easy to say that when many of the average kid parents do not have the money to send their kids to private school or are unable to home school their kids. Or for that matter do not have the TIME to keep up with what is going on with their kids.
If we did as some of you want, I'd like to see how many of your private school teachers would survive in an "open market." Don't kid yourselves. I would love to see my nationally recognized AP teacher in my district get to select his students, but I bet some of you boasting about this would then scream if he said "your student isn't good enough." Or for that matter would just want to complain for complaining sake. Like I said before, you want "cheaper" teachers, it will come with a price to be paid, just like you brainiacs that didn't emphasize education during the BIG 3 haydays who'll miscalculate again because of your ridiculous ideology...
Dump on teachers Part III
Once again, people want to get after the teachers for the problems in this state. A few years ago it was "you poor teachers" and now when teacher salaries are better than what people make it's "you greedy teachers." So some of you who don't believe in Socialism are quick to point out "welcome to the club" and "share the pain." That's not Socialism at all, nope. This State has some of the best teachers in the country and now you folks want to make them worry about bills even more (because you know, teachers are just loaded) and then take care of your kids (and educate them too). The reason we rank "27th" is that many of you screaming are some of the same people who DID NOT emphasize the importance of education while things were going well with the BIG 3. "Don't worry about school, that assembly line job is waiting for you." NOW, people have awakened and it's the teachers fault. WHY would anyone want to take on this job with the hoops one must do just to stay in (spending thousands on advancing their degrees and the thousands to stay certified, etc.)? Now, you have people question you about how much you make? I got news for you brainiacs, you should see the joke of requirements that some of these beloved SOUTHERN states have for teachers (or should I say the utter lack of, see the attrition rate for new teachers, oh I forgot, you could care less). You people want teachers to be the perfect person and then don't want to pay them. I got news for you, can't have it both ways as you do with buying cheap goods from China. You want cheaper "teachers" you'll get a "cheaper" product. And not all of you can be great home schooling teachers either... spare me. I doubt you could get your kid ready for the multitude of AP classes offered in my district (I use to live in Dearborn). Spare me... I'm sure most of you could step into a classroom of 30+ kids and handle them easily I bet...
Oh, one more thing, private schools... yeah, teachers making less than 35K in most schools of those schools. I'm sure they are just "TUNED" in to just teach when they have to pay their mortgages and put up with garbage benefits. You people all live in fantasy land and you just don't even know it. I'm sure because of this vitriolic hate of public schools many of you would love to see teachers join the rest of you share "pain." Nope, that's not socialism.
Paying for public education
Wow I didn't know that. In that case, lets reduce the school hours and reduce the number of suicide among our children. I didn't know that school was that dangerous to the mental health of our children.
BHH, Bridgman, Michigan
THAT IS THE MOST bizzare COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN.
Paying for public education
I would be more supportive of public education if our children could go to school more days a year. I was surprised to learn that in most schools our children go to school less than 180 days... I am sick and tired of this. You want more money from taxpayers for schools, stop cheating our children.
BHH, Bridgman, Michigan
OH MY, IF YOU WANT A LONGER SCHOOL YEAR, BETTER TEACHERS AND CAKE YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!!! GOOD LUCK ON GETTING PEOPLE TO WANT TO BE TEACHERS FOR 25K OR LESS THAT SOME OF YOU WANT. BESIDES, A LONGER SCHOOL YEAR MEANS YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE SCHOOL DAY DIFFERENT. IF YOU HAVE KIDS IN COLLEGE PREP SETTINGS FOR THAT LONG, GOOD LUCK. SEE WHAT THE SUICIDE RATE IS IN JAPAN AND S. KOREA. AND THEY TRY TO HAVE FUN STUFF DURING THE DAY TO EASE THE STUDENTS TENSION (WHICH SURPRISE, COSTS MONEY). SOME OF YOU JUST TALK OUT OF YOUR YOU KNOW WHAT BEFORE THINKING..... NO WONDER EDUCATION IS A MESS HERE. YOU WANT THAT TO BE GOOD AND CHEAP LIKE CHINESE GOODS....GOOD LUCK.......
Dump on teachers continued
Once again, people want to get after the teachers for the problems in this state. A few years ago it was "you poor teachers" and now when teacher salaries are better than what people make it's "you greedy teachers." So some of you who don't believe in Socialism are quick to point out "welcome to the club" and "share the pain." That's not Socialism at all, nope. This State has some of the best teachers in the country and now you folks want to make them worry about bills even more (because you know, teachers are just loaded) and then take care of your kids (and educate them too). The reason we rank "27th" is that many of you screaming are some of the same people who DID NOT emphasize the importance of education while things were going well with the BIG 3. "Don't worry about school, that assembly line job is waiting for you." NOW, people have awakened and it's the teachers fault. WHY would anyone want to take on this job with the hoops one must do just to stay in (spending thousands on advancing their degrees and the thousands to stay certified, etc.)? Now, you have people question you about how much you make? I got news for you brainiacs, you should see the joke of requirements that some of these beloved SOUTHERN states have for teachers (or should I say the utter lack of). You people want teachers to be the perfect person and then don't want to pay them. I got news for you, can't have it both ways as you do with buying cheap goods from China. You want cheaper "teachers" you'll get a "cheaper" product. And not all of you can be great home schooling teachers either.....
Oh, one more thing, private schools... yeah, teachers making less than 35K in most schools. I'm sure they are just TUNED in to just teach when they have to pay their mortgages. You people all live in fantasy land and you just don't even know it.....
teachers in Detroit
To the guy from Wayne,
Yes, the job is a calling, but the job should be able to take care of your basic needs. I suspect you do not have a family because if you did, you would realize YOUR kids need your time too. I see teachers get the "oh come on" stuff too, but every Monday I know his Math teacher is taking his kid off to Karate practice. Thursday comes along and it's piano for the Englidh teacher kid, etc... Like one poster said, you cann't have teachers behave like the clergy because you want to talk about disconnect, then try to find the brightest and best to work these jobs for what some of you "think" teachers get paid. I'm happy you love your JOB. But it is a JOB in the end. You don't see too many lawyers and doctors doing the same things you suggest do you? Or dare I even bring up those rotten politicians that love to use this issue as a wedge?? Administrators love people like you who duck their heads in the sand...
Transparency
The Mackinac Center is a joke. When they graded school districts, very few passed as "satisfactory." One of the things they do not even consider is class size. They say class size is not a significant factor in education. I'd like to see them in a class of 35+ high school kids. Typical conservative nonsense. "Make do with less, " "More Competition," etc... When these people figure out public schools (or any school) cannot be run like a corporation, then they just maybe might get it.
Farmer Jim
"By the way, why does it cost $252 for my son to take three AP tests? Who's getting rich off that?"
Obviously you are clueless. The fee is for the College Board who create the tests. Pass the tests and in many cases you do not pay college tuition for intro classes. Nice try to focus it on the schools. Like I said, agenda driven and you are not proving me wrong. Like I also told you, you wanted Good Friday off? Should have been a teacher. I enjoyed the day with my kids. "Rest my case." I know it must stink to sit home and get paid for the summer. Must I feel guilty? I don't see Republicans feeling guilty about jobs being shipped over to China and India. Speaking of which...
By the way Jim, since you claim you have a B.S. degree from the very same school I went to (science I'm assuming), how's the job hunting going to be like in India and China? You know, the reason why people like you will not be paid.... go figure it out and ask your Republican buddies how it's working out for the masses. It probably hasn't hit you yet, but it will...Americans will not outsource education. Trust me on that one.
Not much to say about the rest of my post eh? I didn't think so.
fuzzy math?
Anvil, this comment is aimed right at you too...
Your comments are just flat-out insulting. Obviously you are someone with a hidden agenda and probably didn't do well in school (always a correlation and too many of you on these blogs). We had to watch the students last week as they were testing for the MME. You know, the STANDARDIZED TEST we all must give and what we are evaluated with. It wasn't the most ideal thing for us to do and it was not by choice, but who else was going to do it? Outside contractors? Sure, lets outsource more things...
And your other comments are so farcicle about our work day that I am not surprised by someone of your ilk. Until you actually teach (especially with these students today who have about an 8-10 minute attention span per topic, nice job parents) all you are doing is blowing hot air. I hardly ever show a movie. And being a new wave teacher (and a darn good one at that), I am able to infuse technology to keep the kids interested in the topic and expand their understanding by giving them higher order thinking assignments. As for the wasting of prep time? I need the time to put my lessons together (you would know that but I know better). That is why we need time or do you not care if I have kids at home and should bring more homework? I'm sure so many of you bring home assignments and things to correct no doubt. Also, I too could do without the extra training days because they usually don't help us with our teaching methods. Blame the people you elected into the school boards and the administrators who try to justify their inflated salaries....
I'm sick of you parents who just complain and try to take jabs at us. Why don't you go back to school then and become a teacher? Oh, I forgot, there are no jobs for everyone out there. Join the club and many of you would get eatin' alive by these students today. Give me a break. You probably send your kid to private school anyway Frmer Jim and I am just wasting my time.....BTW, you want quality teachers? You have to pay for them. People like me who are renowned AP teachers could be paid more but choose to teach because we like it! But I guess with the Walmartization of America that has no limits we want stuff for free......even high quality teachers. Good luck!
| Jump to top |
