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Is this Faith Talk or Cheers?
Good golly. I now see Hootie's on a tear...as he has been for a while now.
Leo said this. Budwiser said that. I'd be happy to see actual quotes over the 'lies' in question. Hootie's playing the Carla role, raining on everybody's parade in smug satisfaction. Would Jesus require apologies? Or would he just forgive?
Christian my behind.
And what is up with everyone changing their monikers? Having multiple names? How can anyone even hope to follow a thought when the poster is switching identities every five minutes?
Threats of lawsuits? Are you kidding? On a public forum where opinions are expressed with the use of a screen identity? What's next, barfights? I can understand being upset, but come ON!
Is it possible for the Faith Forum to return to a place of actual thought and ideas instead of a "Cheers" knockoff?
Sheesh!
Digging up body parts to worship....
You mean like the bone relics of Saint Boniface or Saint Francis Xavier?
I'd say Christianity has the lead when it comes to body part and fluid relics to 'worship', LOL!
Seeking Peace...
Well, Elder...that's what it says....
You know, I was watching Jesse Duplantis this morning (he tells GREAT stories) and he was talking about peace too. I'm going to paraphrase him here, along with my observations.
There IS a real difference between a 'believer' and a 'wannabe'.
The wannabe Christian can't seem to help him or herself...banging on doors, getting in people's face, hanging Jesus plaques in prominent places, bumper stickers, even t-shirts. They get all stressed out if you don't believe as THEY do...and god help you if you actually challenge their 'points', most of which they don't understand and all of which they can't defend. They attend church on Sundays and whenever Bible Study is on occasion, wanting to be 'seen' and 'heard' as they pray for the crowd. And these folks never seem to be happy. As Jesse said, you just want to RUN from these folks when they do the "Do you wanna be SAVED?!" with a glare and a frown.
The believer Christian is a rare thing...but those who have 'peace' in their religion don't seem to need to have confirmation from anyone else and mind their own business. When they go to church (if they do) they pray quietly and volunteer without trumpting it to the masses. When things happen to them in their lives, they have an accepting nature. They seem happy and content regardless of what is going on...and you NEVER see these people out bugging others. Instead, they use their lives (not words!) FOR AN EXAMPLE! Kind of like Jesus.
I'm all for peace between religions and unbelievers, but again, it all boils down to respect. If a believer can have 'peace' enough to mind their own yard, then I think there can be peace for everyone on earth.
Of course, if you listen to TS enough, Jesus was for war (cough, cough self-defense), not PEACE....
Could it be you're wrong?
Chain mail
I got to see Ms. Nash's picture through a chain email, asking for believers to PRAY for her, although I don't see where prayer will repair her face, replace her hands, and restore to her a normal life.....
And I'm sure Ms. Winfrey is proud to have joined the ranks of Jerry Springer, Maury, and others who enjoy exploitation ala P.T. Barnum...so much for her 'sympathy'.
Paladin, yes. There are a lot of horrific things in life, but I gotta say...this was the worst I have ever seen. I don't see where they did this poor soul any favors keeping her alive. You can't help but have sympathy for her and her family.
It might be a good idea to pray as well for all those at Ft. Hood now mourning the senseless death of their family members, friends or comrades in arms. Seems as if this 'psychiatrist' was the REAL LOONEY in the name of 'religion'.
He violated his oath to this country and should pay accordingly.
Were I a family member of one of the slain, I'd like to have five minutes alone with this character....
Being thankful....
I don't know if any of you saw the poor woman who was attacked by a chimp and was exploited this week by Oprah, but I can tell you this: It sure makes our individual problems seem like child's play in comparison. That poor woman! I only hope that maybe she could get a face transplant and regain some semblance of her former self. Or even hand transplants. SOMETHING.
If you seek out this woman's face, I warn you, you better have a really strong stomach. And don't let your kids see this if they are small. It is beyond horrific.
I don't know if most of us could deal with everything she has had to deal with...all because of a dangerous animal who was chemically altered.
Wow......
MacBadger-on learning how to write
Since you asked so nicely...
I write for a living. Grantwriting mostly, but I've also written newsletters, stories and poems (who hasn't has a poetry phase!). I honed my writing skills as a philosophy major...with a professor who would not just give me an 'A' because I was coherent.
Like most things, you get better the more you practice. I learned a long time ago that if you just write as you speak, it works out rather well. Read a lot of good books with quality writing, so you can see how it should be done. And don't be afraid to try new things.
You are quite wrong in assuming my writing on that post took only 10 minutes. It's usually the work of an hour: getting the first draft done, going over it with an editing eye, and rereading it to make sure it's what I want to say on the subject at hand. I will say there ARE times when my dander gets up and I fire off a volley, only to end up with a rant and not a thoughtful piece. In my opinion, Elroy is a far better writer than I am...and always will be.
I am honored that you enjoyed how I said what I said, even if you don't agree with me.
Nailin Palin one more time!
Well, well, well...so nice of Hootie to keep me in the mix!
Sarah Palin has the same kinds of troubles that many so-called 'conservatives' have...they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It is a documented FACT that Alaska was A NUMBER ONE in earmarks (read spend, spend, spend!) and has been for years now. She claimed to 'care' about the people, but QUIT her JOB as GOVERNOR because she could make more $$$ as a speaker and author (cough, cough). Not once did Ms. Palin criticize Bush for his reckless spending and his waste of money on Homeland Security. Her so-called 'responsible fiscal stewardship' included such things as the renovations of three gun clubs (now THERE'S a needed item!), a whopping $402,000 to study the artic fox, improvements to Little League fields and ski resorts...the list goes on. Yet the tea-baggers just LOVE this fool, who couldn't seem to identify current military commanders in the field in addition to using 'gee shucks' in her stimulating speech abilities! What's next, a female Gomer Pyle for president?
Then of course we have conservative supermodel babe Carrie (I'm a Christian) Prejean, sweetheart of Sean Hannity, who just about creamed his boxers to defend her opinion of a gay-free America, consoling her loss of a beauty contest....only to be revealed in a smokin' hot sex tape playing with a few toys at the tender age of 17. Who shot this video of Ms. Hypocrite? Would Jesus approve of masturbation and soft porn anymore than he would homosexuality?
Conservatives have a real problem when it comes to women in my opinion...they want you to hold to the old sterotypes and God forbid if you aren't a Christian. You can't get a stay-at-home mom baking cookies and going to soccer games to run the country.
As a fiscal conservative, I'd vote for a woman with a good education who understands economics and spending from practical experience. Somebody like Ron Paul, who understands that government MUST get smaller and stop spending our hard-earned cash overseas like water. Fighting endless wars. Wasting taxpayer dollars on boondoggle studies and frippery.
We need brains, not beauty. Common sense over political claptrap. A record of responsible leadership with an understanding that cuts are needed along with character. And we just haven't had that in a conservative candidate for a long time, male or female.
You want improvements to the gun club? Fundraise. You want studies on the Artic Fox? Let those who have an interest come up with the dollars. You want to do a study of voting patterns in Iraq? Find an investor. Why don't we allow the PRIVATE SECTOR pay for all these 'projects'?
No balls. Not on the male side, either. And they didn't listen to Brooksley Born. Now THERE is presidential material!
Substance, substance, substance.
All Saints Day...
Is a ripoff of the Pagan Samhain. Sorry to burst your bubble on that....
By the way, my youngest got a TRACT for Halloween!
What's next, telling my children they'll go to Hell because they fail to show up at church?
All Saints my bippy!
Samhain
Had a lovely Samhain...except for one little incident which I'd like to relate to our forumites:
I was in a large chain grocery store, waiting to pick up a script. In front of me was a rather tall man wearing a NASCAR jacket. With me were my oldest child and their friend. All of us were wearing black and my oldest and their friend wore pentagrams on their necks.
I engaged in conversation with this person about NASCAR, trying to pass the time. He switched the conversation by saying: "If you don't mind me saying so, you shouldn't allow your child to be wearing that...it's a sign of the devil!" Needless to say I was taken aback by both the stupidity of the statement, not to mention the arrogance. I told my child's friend about what was stated while the man's attention was engaged. The man then turned to him and asked him if he was a witch after a lengthy pause. He admitted he was. The man then said: "Oh, really?" and made a grumph sound. "Isn't that following Satan?" My child's friend responded with "That's a popular misconception. Not all witches follow the dark path." After this, the man couldn't wait to get away from us.
It's this sort of arrogant attitude that I hate MOST among those of the Christian seal of approval...that sheer lack of tolerance and horror of those following 'different' religions. He had no business commenting on the religious symbols displayed....nor to vomit his obvious ignorance.
Why is it Christians act SO stupid?
The Republican slide into Supreme Power
Well, Dillon, since you asked so nicely:
First you should understand I started out a Republican. I voted for Reagan twice. I've also been and continue to be an active stockholder, in addition to being self-employed. I find nothing wrong with making a profit. I've also been a member of several tax watchdog groups, in addition to the NRA.
However, things in the Republican party changed drastically when Bush Senior took the helm. They stopped being fiscal conservatives and jumped on the social conservative bandwagon, which has become so far right and militant that I feel they have almost destroyed what was the Grand Old Party...as a means to achieving supreme power. I slowly evolved to being independent as a voter, with Libertarian leanings. Why? Because it became clear to me that the GOP had become more concerned with gaining power...giving large corporate entities opportunities they haven't had since the days of the robber barons. Alan Greenspan, whom I respected greatly, made an error in judging the greed of the financial industry in terms of oversight on each other...they were in fact so busy cramming dollars in their pockets they were too busy to watch one another while corporations ate each other like wild dogs (and folks made huge profits and reinvested, thinking they would NEVER lose). The SEC happily continued to look 'the other way' while various abuses of individual investors occured that profited many banks and other entities in the building up of power. Bush Junior (the Bushman) pretty much sunk the party with the creation of Homeland Security and his wild spending spree on the public dime...all while the Republicans were silent, focusing on Christian Power and extending money to them in the form of the Faith Based Initiative, which gives faith-based organizations access to Federal dollars...even IF they discriminate in their hiring practices when it comes to religion.
For years the Republicans claimed to be 'guardians of the middle class'. Nothing could be further from the truth. The message over the past several years is clear: They want corporations to make huge profits at the COST of depleting the middle class, which makes them richer and returns the middle class to poverty so they CAN be serfs again (the trick is making them happy to accept it). Think how much more one can make in countries outside the U.S., hiring workers for next to nothing! And consumers loved it because it meant lower prices while the corporations loved it because it meant higher profits. But now people are beginning to wake up.
There IS a cost, Dillon. Steinbeck said it best: "And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed."
The Grapes of Wrath
Chapter 19
And Orwell's great insight: "Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship."
1984 (Nineteen Eighty-Four)
O'Brien to Winston, Part 3, Chapter 3.
I really believe that Bush Junior laid the groundwork in order to have a revolution of the Social Conservatives against 'liberals' so that they will be content to be 'poor' and support the vast wealth and power that has been established under Republican leadership over many years and helped along by Liberal policies (no question they have contributed to this accumulation of wealth and power). How else would the 'banks' have been 'rescued' by our government without much whimpering by the GOP while demonizing people who have lost EVERYTHING at the hands of many on Wall Street as being careless (please EXPLAIN what derivatives are)? And blaming it all on liberals when they were key players in allowing regulations and oversight to be scrapped? Obama makes the perfect whipping boy. It's called misdirection.
Understand, Dillon, I want to make a profit on my investments, but not at the COST it has inflicted on our country. It angers me when many of the banks we 'rescued' are making HUGE PROFITS less than a year later on the backs of individuals who are now on the hook for repaying loans on vastly over-inflated properties in addition to interest and penalties....and who OWNS the property now? The BANKS and if you fail to pay your taxes, THE STATE. Welcome Big Brother.
There was a time in America when people didn't live on credit. When people cared about their neighbors. When companies were a little more ethical and treated their workers with respect. Now workers are nothing but a commodity to be tossed aside like Kleenex for that 'margin of profit'. And people who gave in to the temptations of 'refinancing for a vacation or lux home improvements', 'property values will ALWAYS go up', and various lines of revolving credit are now paying more for their follies, since the bankruptcy laws were VERY MUCH TWISTED in the favor of the person owed to the point where a borrower really doesn't get much protection from creditors...and the BANK wins again. Nor can they pay their debts once their credit is ruined...since it is held against them when they attempt to get a job! What leverage for ensuring serfs again!
Now of course I could be wrong and it took me a while to see it for what it is, but the Republicans seem to be against the individual and are going along with many of the people who are stripping our freedoms all in the name of 'protection' or 'safety' or 'religion' or 'profit'. Freedom's not free and trying to build up boogeymen to blame for our current situation doesn't wash with people like myself who started out listening to Mark Scott (who knew what in heck he was talking about!). I love my country, but I fear my government. And I know where we are in history...because I know the past.
That's how I see it.
Good Morning Elroy
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, but I've been nursing a sick kitten that was rescued from the streets. She's been pretty sick with a respiratory illness that took a bad turn, but she's doing better now and seems to love chicken soup...just like people! =-)
Now onto the discussion:
What I meant by 'coming up with something original' is that I get very tired of people using the Marxist argument with public healthcare (Is it Marxist to have eminent domain?). Instead of beating that old drum (and encouraging arguments along those ridiculous lines), why can't you suggest something as a alternative? I think new ideas are needed, not useless rhetoric.
You see Elroy, I believe privatization can work once you get adequate oversight by the people responsible for enforcing our laws...when you see how much Robert Bobb has done for the DPS schools by simple audits and follow-up in prosecuting people breaking the laws, things improve mightily and 20 MILLION dollars is saved! But I understand why you might be doubtful.
In terms of ethics, Elroy, I've been to college and I know how great the disparity is between America and the rest of the world. But we can't solve everything overnight. There are too many things that have to be fixed and as much as I admire Obama for attempting to fix several things now, I believe a slower and more deliberate pace is warranted...if nothing else, to give people time to adapt to change. If we continue to spend as we have, I'm afraid the country will go bankrupt. This is not a legacy to leave to our kids and I think Obama is mistaken in his economic policies.
Why are the economies of Mexico and America so different? A complex question and I'm not an economist. We took the cuffs off the banking industry, removed oversight and they sought to make the biggest profits possible on the greatest risk....it was a festival of greed. In Mexico, there is greed of another kind in terms of widespread corruption and payola, in addition to a poorly educated majority that can be taken advantage of (far larger than what we have here) in my opinion.
As far as what is reasonable, yes, Elroy...it is reasonable to pay for infrastructure, military protection, education and services (water, sewer, power, gas)...but at what cost? I happen to think that many of these services are not efficient. Nor are they audited enough to suit me. Yes, there is a way to prevent things like child labor in private enterprise...if they take grant dollars, grants usually have agreements (i.e. that your money is not being used to support terrorist or illegal activities) that everyone must agree upon to get said dollars. If they take tax money to provide the services, you can write the prohibitions and penalties in an MOU....thus preventing any conflicts. All of which are legally binding as a contract.
Elroy, are you blind? Haven't you figured out yet that the ultra right WANTS lords and serfs again? Apparently they never read "The Grapes of Wrath".
Sorry you got beat over the head because of my spelling boo-boo (cahones). Maybe I should stand in the corner for rhe Forum Spelling Police.
Yep. We need to get rid of the lobbyists because what we're getting from our representatives is NO representation...which poses a bit of a problem in terms of inciting revolution. In my humble opinion, we're not far from it now. Check out the gun stores lately?
Making care of the poor without government
Elroy, why don't you ask for something original?
Government does some things pretty well and many things really badly. As a fiscal conservative, I know we can't possibly come up with the dollars for healthcare unless some key issues are addressed which drive up the costs involved...things like litigation and settlements which our lawyer friends in Congress won't touch.
I think what should be done is to take all human services work, including social security and medicare/medicaid, and return it where it rightfully belongs...the nonprofit sector (i.e. churches, hospitals and human service agencies)! Christ gave a great example of how Christians should 'give' to those less fortunate. How about seeing that in action, instead of these so-called Christian Conservative loonies who insist that everybody should be rugged individualists, making their own arrangements as they get 'successful' REGARDLESS of personal circumstances? Then they could work this all out on their terms, recognizing that THEY have to raise the money to pay for it...leaving government out of reform and planning. No more 'allocated' funding from the states. This would lower taxes and ease the burden on our staggering national debt. It might smack some of these doctors and insurance bozos into reality in terms of costs!
While I really understand the ire of the conservatives when they see people lining up for 'free money' who appear rather well dressed and coifed, if the entire social work system were removed to the private nonprofits instead of being a taxpayer funded government mess I think we'd see greater success in terms of reform. Grant funding could then be available from citizens who CHOOSE to give to the poor. All the government would have to do is oversee the finances with current nonprofit tax laws...and change some of the rules for churches who participate. Privatize it and see what happens.
This would still leave those that can afford insurance or pay cash the option to continue and CHOOSE to help the poor. Then we'd see where the rubber meets the road on the compassion of the 'conservatives' and 'liberals', wouldn't we? And maybe the baying of the insane Glenn Beck and other far right sourpusses would be silenced if the majority failed in 'compassion'?
They don't have the cahones, my friend. So either nothing will be done again to avoid the juggernaut of collapse (thank you lobbyists) or we get a publicly funded system that few it seems really want combined with the knowledge that not everyone will get all the 'services' they think they deserve...and the Medicare faithful will see what a sweet deal they got as a 'protected' group of citizens, despite their whining.
There's no such thing as a free lunch. While life is sacred, nobody promises you anything from the minute you're born in this cold world on which we reside. And I can say this as a mom paying a lot of money for insurance every month...because of pre-existing conditions.
My Account to God....
Dear God,
As a young person I read your word and earnestly sought your church. The first one was Apostolic. I hung around for a year or so while your preachers told us that the end of the world was coming (in October). Guess what? Didn't happen. Since your word says that those who prophecy in your name are never in error, I moved on.
The next church I attended was a mega-church, run by a mega preacher. I didn't stay long when I saw the expensive cars of the preacher and his staff...not to mention his footsie under the table with the females. I'm sure you'll agree it was a good move.
Then I found a small Baptist church. The people seemed earnest along with the preacher, however, they focused a LOT on eating...and dancing was a sin. (Nevermind that David danced).
I found a non-denominational church, but the guy in charge was nothing more than a thief and a liar. This swindler would buy stuff 'for the church' then send it to his home after a few months so it would wash with the taxman as 'church' property. There's a lot more I could say about the actions of this 'man of god', but I'm sure he can give his own account for his vile practices when you see him.
Then the Southern Baptists. Yeah. I went once...and when the preacher was finished, everyone stood up and he walked to the food tables FIRST. Once he'd served himself (he didn't look like he was starving), then and only then could everyone else get a bite to eat. Talk about delusions of grandeur! I thought it was always better to be LAST, but maybe he hadn't read that far.
After that the Methodists, the Catholics...and yet there was missing much of what you wrote...not that you make it easy, you old rascal!
Finally, God, I just decided that you were not to be found in a church. Your book at times made no sense. And your so-called 'representatives' of your church did not do you proud.
I know that you can't find that I didn't try.
Drew the master
Wow, Drew, I finally find some new questions to consider. Impressed I am! Lots of thought to these questions and much appreciation.
I'll wager that none of the Christians will respond, being petty and peevish at your challenge to the 'faith'.
Copping a plea of 'humanity'
Politicians exempt from condemnation? Are you kidding?
Look, TS, I know that politicians do a lot of corrupt things, but I don't expect that a preacher or a rabbi would because of their position as God's representative, not the people's representative. And if you read the article, the politicians were NOT organ selling, it was a RABBI.
Now as to punishment, the BIBLE SAYS:
Deuteronomy 17:2-5
"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."
Exodus 21:16
"And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
You act as if stoning was only done by Muslims...and that is clearly untrue if we read the OT.
So now are you saying because we are all sinners, these people should be exempted from God's wrath? That God shouldn't hold a priest/rabbi/preacher to a higher standard? If not, then why do we need a priest/rabbi/preacher in the church?
You can't have it both ways, my pretty. Either there is a standard of righteousness a follower of God has to have, or there isn't. Based on what you've said, if a person violates the commandments of God, that's ok, since we all are sinners anyhoo which is a copout from the queen of righteousness. A politician doesn't make a commitment to God as a part of their work, but a rabbi sure as hell does! Trying to make a rabbi/priest/preacher the EQUAL of everyone else is just a trifle dishonest, since those of the house of Levi were SPECIAL to God and set apart.
Since we're all sinners and without righteousness, I guess we're all going to hell.
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