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Moving Away From The Lama
Elroy said:
"I'm sorry to hear that. Seriously, I wish you no ill will."
Thanks, and I wish no ill will toward you either.
"The point of debate, for me, is not to cause damage but to spur thought."
That, to me, seems debatable.
"I was not offended, but it did add to my concern for your state of mind this evening."
You know, it's easier to laugh when you like the Fundamentalist who's making the jokes. ;)
"Again, hope it gets better."
Thanks, we'll see... work stuff... trusting God to work it out in the best way for our family.
Moving Away From The Lama
Posted by: Elroy
A. Fundamentalist Sinner wrote:
"I actually am having a rough night, thank you for your concern."
I'm sorry to hear that. Seriously, I wish you no ill will.
"However, that has nothing to do with your posts, or mine back to you."
I certainly hope not. The point of debate, for me, is not to cause damage but to spur thought.
"Elroy: "I hope it gets better."
Thank you again, I hope it does too."
Ojala.
"P.S. You weren't offended by my (gag) joke were you? I took you for someone with a good sense of humor."
I was not offended, but it did add to my concern for your state of mind this evening. Again, hope it gets better.
Enjoy,
Elroy
Moving Away From The Lama
Elroy said:
"Sounds like you're having a bad night Styler."
You know what? I actually am having a rough night, thank you for your concern. However, that has nothing to do with your posts, or mine back to you.
"I hope it gets better."
Thank you again, I hope it does too.
P.S. You weren't offended by my (gag) joke were you? I took you for someone with a good sense of humor.
Moving Away From The Lama
Posted by: Elroy
A. Fundamentalist Sinner wrote:
"I suppose one could say you love your wife enough to continue to be the same charming, witty and intelligent (gag) person she married, rather than to get lazy and let yourself go."
Sounds like you're having a bad night Styler. I hope it gets better.
Enjoy,
Elroy
Moving Away From The Lama
I believe you Deacon... I mean, you wouldn't know it by his posts, but he must be pretty suave to have landed Suzanne.
Moving Away From The Lama
A.F.S.-". . . lazy and let yourself go . . ."
I met the guy. Elroy is doing anything but being lazy and letting himself go.
Quite the contrary!
Moving Away From The Lama
Elroy said:
"I mean loving yourself enough to take the somewhat selfish step of taking time away from others to continue to grow yourself. Without continuing to grow yourself, to fuel the person you are, eventually you will run out of yourself and your ability to give yourself to another."
I suppose one could say you love your wife enough to continue to be the same charming, witty and intelligent (gag) person she married, rather than to get lazy and let yourself go.
Moving Away From The Lama
Posted by: Elroy
A. Fundamentalist Sinner wrote:
"ILet me ask: Do you really mean "loving" yourself, or "being" yourself."
I mean loving yourself enough to take the somewhat selfish step of taking time away from others to continue to grow yourself. Without continuing to grow yourself, to fuel the person you are, eventually you will run out of yourself and your ability to give yourself to another.
Enjoy,
Elroy
Moving Away From The Lama
Elroy said:
"In my previous marriage, it began to fall apart because I started to burn out. I wanted to be Mr. Perfect Husband and deny myself so I could give all my time and resources to helping my wife - never asking for something in return. And I was able to do it for a number of years."
Elroy, I think I can relate. At the beginning of my previous marriage, I tried to be the perfect husband, changing things that bothered her, trying to be what she wanted/needed, because that's what I thought we both should be doing for each other... problem is she thought I was the only one who should be doing it.
"She didn't like to travel, and didn't like being apart, so I had stopped traveling. She didn't enjoy engaging conversations, so I stopped having the kind I so enjoyed. She didn't like me going outside the marriage to get such conversations, so I stopped that too. And then, when she complained I was no longer fun to hang out with, that I lacked much interest in the world, that I had stopped writing music and poetry and all the things she so loved about me, it was then I realized by giving up everything in order to fulfill her desires, I stopped feeding myself, and, thus, the man that attracted her had shriveled up and died inside. When I told her my revelation, and that I needed to traveling again, with or without her, and that I need study time and the chance to discuss things deeply with someone who was engaged, she basically said she didn't want to be in a marriage like that. It was a Catch-22 - I was no longer who I was, but she desired I not love myself enough to continue to be the man I was when we got married."
Wow, what a familiar-sounding story... not the exact details, but I can tell similar stories. My problem, though, is that I didn't address the problems like you did, but let them continue to get worse... until, well, another woman started giving me the attention and respect I was so sorely missing (but didn't realize it until I had already fallen, like a Proverb, into that trap... because, you know, we men just need to "suck it up" and deal with it, I thought). Let me ask: Do you really mean "loving" yourself, or "being" yourself.
"These days, I know not to do that. I know I have to feed my own growth, which is my interpretation of loving myself, so that I have something to give to others. One of the best things about having such an independent wife is that we give each other the time to feed our own souls, and thus we continue to grow as people and regenerate those parts the other loves to share."
I'll agree we need to continue to be ourselves to have successful relationships... and encourage others (especially our spouses) to be themselves as well. We also have the responsibility to treat others with love and respect... both parties in a marriage must be fully committed to this (Ephesians 5:33 is a profound Truth for married couples). Thankfully for you and I, our "adulterous" second marriages are going so much better than our first marriages. ;)
P.S. She said "whatever," in case you're still wondering.
Moving Away From The Lama
Posted by: Elroy
8-Mile wrote:
"These are not developed by growing in love and compassion for oneself."
I am not interpreting the Dali Lama's comments the same way you appear to be.
In my previous marriage, it began to fall apart because I started to burn out. I wanted to be Mr. Perfect Husband and deny myself so I could give all my time and resources to helping my wife - never asking for something in return. And I was able to do it for a number of years.
Until I started to run out of myself to give. Thus I withdrew a bit and got lectured that I was no longer the man she married.
She didn't like to travel, and didn't like being apart, so I had stopped traveling. She didn't enjoy engaging conversations, so I stopped having the kind I so enjoyed. She didn't like me going outside the marriage to get such conversations, so I stopped that too.
And then, when she complained I was no longer fun to hang out with, that I lacked much interest in the world, that I had stopped writing music and poetry and all the things she so loved about me, it was then I realized by giving up everything in order to fulfill her desires, I stopped feeding myself, and, thus, the man that attracted her had shriveled up and died inside.
When I told her my revelation, and that I needed to traveling again, with or without her, and that I need study time and the chance to discuss things deeply with someone who was engaged, she basically said she didn't want to be in a marriage like that. It was a Catch-22 - I was no longer who I was, but she desired I not love myself enough to continue to be the man I was when we got married.
These days, I know not to do that. I know I have to feed my own growth, which is my interpretation of loving myself, so that I have something to give to others. One of the best things about having such an independent wife is that we give each other the time to feed our own souls, and thus we continue to grow as people and regenerate those parts the other loves to share.
That is how I interpret what the Dali Lama is saying.
Enjoy,
Elroy
Moving Away From The Lama
8-Mile, 10:14 PM
"Dillon-"It seems that you are saying that we must not love ourselves. Is that what you are saying?"
"8-Mile, No. That's a given."
"My need is for greater love of God (as revealed through Jesus Christ) and love for others."
What love of self 'is a given' ? Actually I see very little true love of self. I require a renewing of 'loving myself' on a daily basis, for the most part.
Moving Away From The Lama
Dillon-"It seems that you are saying that we must not love ourselves. Is that what you are saying?"
No. That's a given.
My need is for greater love of God (as revealed through Jesus Christ) and love for others.
These are not developed by growing in love and compassion for oneself.
I know, what I'm saying is countercultural.
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