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The New Opel Corsa -Fhs1 - GMzip
GMZIP says,"Comparing what is now, or what has been in the past with what is to be in the future is misleading.....Current Saturn importations are a mute point since they are going away." ........... It is now a "mute point" with you since you were PROVEN WRONG regarding your statement " Per UAW restrictions imposed on GM by their 18% ownership of GM the importation of such a vehicle into the USA would be prohibited." ... (This was from March 29, 2005 - Labor boss urges GM to sell Opels in U.S. - - Reuters / March 29, 2005 - - Source: Automotive News)
GMZIP says,"As part of the bankruptcy agreement that gave the UAW an 18% ownership in GM in exchange for federal funding of the UAW VEBA, GM ageeed to build all FUTURE small fuel efficient vehicles in the USA at UAW assembly plants and NOT import such vehicles, thereby protecting UAW jobs....That is why the Chevy Cruz will be assembled at the Lake Orion, Michigan facility and not be an import." .........
Fhs1 responds by saying,"IF that is true then you and the union need to quickly figure out how to define what "small fuel efficient vehicles" are and learn how to build them in the US profitably ... VERY VERY soon!
BTW is a Cruze by definition a "small vehicle" or is it just fuel inefficient?" .............
The key words for GMzip is "IF that is true" regarding GM bankruptcy- UAW - Chevy Cruze. Lets look at some facts that I will back up with Sources. MONDAY, JUNE 1, 2009 -
WASHINGTON - General Motors filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Monday as part of the Obama administration's plan to shrink the automaker to a sustainable size and give a majority ownership stake to the federal government. ... â†'
GM officially announces Chevy Cruze will be built in Ohio
by Sam Abuelsamid (RSS feed) on AUGUST 21st 2008 at 5:26PM-
At a press conference in Lordstown, OH this afternoon, GM CEO Rick Wagoner officially announced that the Chevrolet Cruze would be built at the plant alongside the existing Cobalt. Wagoner alluded to this in June during the company's annual meeting. GM will invest $350 million in the Lordstown plant to tool up for production of the new compact sedan that will also spawn numerous other small cars. An additional $150 million will also be spent launching the Cruze including a new line to build the 1.4L turbo four cylinder engine in Flint MI. Cruzes will also be built in Europe and Asia for sale in those regions. It's expected that the Cruze with the new engine and 6-speed automatic transmission could achieve as much as 40 mpg on the highway.
The investment in Lordstown is one of several that have been announced at U.S. plants in the past five years, adding up to over $2 billion total investment in Ohio and more than $20 billion in the United States. "One of the key reasons for the success of the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 is the Lordstown workforce and the strong partnerships with the UAW and local and state officials," Wagoner said. "Based on the quality of work and these strong partnerships, we are pleased to announce our plans to invest another $500 million in the Chevy Cruze product program in the U.S., including more than $350 million in Lordstown." ..... Fhs1..as you can see GMzip has been PROVEN WRONG once again!! With GMzip..as you said Fhs1 - "IF that is true" ........... The Chevy Cruze was announced to be built in Ohio on AUGUST 21st 2008 - nearly a FULL YEAR Before General Motors filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on MONDAY, JUNE 1, 2009. The timeline does NOT Lie!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sources:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31030038/ ..... http://green.autoblog.com/2008/08/21/gm-officially-announces-chevy-cruze-to-be-built-in-ohio/
The New Opel Corsa
GMzip says to Fhs1,"Should we be concerned about or even interested in the Opel Corsa?????
Per UAW restrictions imposed on GM by their 18% ownership of GM the importation of such a vehicle into the USA would be prohibited. Sorry if I missed something here."
Fhs1 replies by saying,As far as the "UAW restrictions" are concerned ... those restrictions may become a "self-imposed death sentence" unless the UAW can figure out how to help GM and the rest of the NewDet3 radically boost fuel economy cost effectively (that includes development and start-up costs)." ............. Could either on of you SUPPLY a SOURCE to back up your claims that The UAW placed restrictions on GM from importing Opel cars to America????
How is it that the Opel Astra from Europe is currently sold as The Saturn Astra in the United States since 2008???? This was from March 29, 2005 - Labor boss urges GM to sell Opels in U.S. - - Reuters / March 29, 2005 - - Source: Automotive News
FRANKFURT -- A labor leader at General Motors' Adam Opel unit renewed calls for Detroit to approve the sale of Opel-brand passenger cars in North America as the German business faces a weak European market.
"If we really push it, we could begin selling Opel cars in the U.S. in one to two years," Klaus Franz, head of the Opel works council, told Reuters on Tuesday.
The brand could succeed despite brutal competition by emphasizing its European design and engineering, he said.
A spokesman for GM in Europe said, however, the company had no plans to export Opel cars to the U.S.
"The most important reason is the unfavorable exchange rate, but that's not the only one," he said.
"The company has a sufficient number of brands in the U.S. to cover all customer groups, and Opel's U.S. sister-brand Saturn integrates Opel technology and design into its models much like Opel's sister-brand Vauxhall does in the UK," the spokesman continued.
Earlier this month, shares in GM plunged after the company said it would post a first-quarter loss and sharply lowered its full-year earnings guidance due to a slump in sales in its domestic market.
Following recent signals from GM development chief Bob Lutz that he was considering phasing out either the Buick or Pontiac marque should sales continue to disappoint, Franz said it was the right time for Detroit to launch the Opel nameplate.
"The company has a product range problem in the U.S., but the fault doesn't lie with the trucks, rather with the passenger cars," Franz said, adding that models such as the Zafira van and the Signum crossover wagon would be ideal for the U.S. market.
Opel rival Volkswagen suffered an operating loss of 907 million euros ($1.2 billion) in North America last year and doesn't expect to break even any earlier than 2006 due to the strong euro, but Franz said any disadvantages arising from exchange rates would be less problematic for GM than its penchant to hand out rebates of up to $5,000 on its cars.
"The negative currency effects could be largely compensated," Franz said, citing transfer pricing as a means to offset the impact of foreign exchange.
Industry analyst Ulrich Winzen of Polk Marketing Systems agreed with GM, saying he saw no economic reason why the company should export Opel cars to the U.S.
"There's more potential for Opel in Eastern Europe or Asia," he said. "But GM exporting Opel cars to U.S. would be as absurd as Volkswagen exporting its Seat and Skoda brand cars to the U.S." ..... NOTICE that there was NO mention whatsoever about the UAW keeping GM from importing Opel Cars to The United States. That is just Hogwash from a certain GM Hater!!
Let the Chips fall where they may! --- Fhs1
Fhs1.. you posted on Sat. 11/14/09 12:39 am - "Regarding Hondas above 30 mpg combined average, there are 4, with two (2) of those rated above 40 mpg.
You are right, the US consumer has limited selection even in 2010 above 30 mpg(US) COMBINED AVERAGE" ... Fhs1 you said on Fri. 11/20/09 12:49 AM - " C4C. Somewhere between 15% to 23% of vehicles purchased were apparently rated ABOVE 30 mpg combined average." .............. Fhs1..I have some questions for you. #1. How many models does Honda sale in the U.S. auto market? #2. If Honda only has FOUR models with 30 mpg combined or above - would that equal "15 to 23% of the models that Honda offers for sale in the U.S. auto market? #3. When it comes to the sales of just Honda's FOUR models that achieve 30 or above ABOVE mpg combined average - Would that really = the "15% to 23% of Honda vehicles purchased in the U.S. auto market in Oct. 2009? Honda Motor Company sold 85,502 vehicles in October 2009. I have to believe that the vehicles that Honda sold in the U.S. - Oct. 2009 would NOT represent "15% to 23% of Hondas volume of vehicles that get achieve 30 or above ABOVE mpg combined. If you can list the FOUR Honda models that get 30 or above ABOVE mpg combined -I can look up the sales numbers. Let the Chips fall where they may!
Safe Cars: IIHS Reveals Safest Vehicles for 2010. Is Yours on the List?
Hot off the press, the all-around vehicle-safety watchdog the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has just released its awards for safe cars to 19 passenger vehicles and eight SUVs for the 2010 model year.
Each year, IIHS recognizes cars that perform with flying colors when tested for protecting folks in front, rear, side and rollover crashes. This year, IIHS rolled up its sleeves and got tougher with the requirements for vehicle roof strength. The automakers that received the most awards were Subaru, Ford Motor Co. and its Volvo unit, followed by Volkswagen, its Audi unit and Chrysler. But, hey, what about Toyota and Lexus, which kicked butt last year with 11 awards. This year, the powers that be at the two automakers are probably sitting in the corner of some dark room, rocking their frustrations away. Take a closer look, and you'll also see that BMW, Mazda, Mitsubishi and Saab also didn't make the grade. Tsk, tsk, fellas.
Is your vehicle on the list?
Large cars
Buick LaCrosse
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Volvo S80
Midsize cars
Audi A3
Chevrolet Malibu built after October 2009
Chrysler Sebring 4-door with optional electronic stability control
Dodge Avenger with optional electronic stability control
Mercedes C class
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Volkswagen Jetta sedan
Volkswagen Passat sedan
Volvo C30
Small cars
Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
Kia Soul
Nissan Cube
Subaru Impreza except WRX
Volkswagen Golf 4-door
Midsize SUVs
Dodge Journey
Subaru Tribeca
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC90
Small SUVs
Honda Element
Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan ... Source: http://www.bvblackspin.com/2009/11/19/safe-cars-iihs-reveals-safest-vehicles-for-2010-is-yours-on-th/
Under the Hood
GMzip aka GMSR says to NORTON..."I, like you, am not sure what "69s" intent is by his question. I agree...he's sure to already knows the answer. Being witness to some of his past confrontational exchanges with some of the other forum participants I'd just as soon ignore him,,,,as well as his two buds Mike and Barney." ............. If you really want to ignore me..Then why did you mention me on Fri. 11/20/09 10:25 AM and on Thu. 11/19/09 10:00 AM ???? It is just a double standard with you. FACT..GMzip aka GMSR and solsticefan was BANNED on the same day after they had their posts removed for their personal attacks on other posters! GMzip aka GMSR.. You are the pot calling the kettle black when you point to another person and accuse that person of doing something that you are guilty of doing yourself.
Under the Hood
Norton says to GMzip,"I am not sure where 69 is going with this but yes there were versions of this in the US and Europe? I do believe 69 already knows' the answer? And we all thought the infamous "suicide doors" were odd?" ............ I was going the same place that you and I went toooo a while back.
We had a good exchange about Chrysler! You remember the posts on Wed. 11/11/09 06:11 PM - Wed. 11/11/09 05:18 PM. and on Wed. 11/11/09 04:41 PM. It was about Auto Talk! Nothing more - nothing less. C. Landey was also in those exchanges. Funny how GMzip included me in both your exchanges on Thu. 11/19/09 10:00 AM - then latter stabbed me in the back! Oh well..I should have known better!
Our 1995 Odyssey
I say toooo Fhs1," I can have you a "Ford MONDEO Estate" in about two weeks. I have inside connections with a company known as I.C.T.R. - NOW are you interested?????"
Fhs1 responds by saying,"YOU BET! It CERTIANLY is worth checking on!
Any suggestions how to contact the folks you are thinking about at I.C.T.R?" ........... Oh,By the way-I.C.T.R. - stands for- International Car Theft Ring!>> No,I Do Not have Any Connections toooo I.C.T.R. What is that old saying - Hook, Line & Sinker! CHECKMATE! Your Move! - On a serious note-I really hope that you find what you are Looking For! ..Fhs1..You are a Scholar and a Gentleman!!!! ..Thanks for ALL your Posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Our 1995 Odyssey
Fhs1 says,"At least 50 more years? I don't believe I'll live that long ... even if I do ... chances of being able to drive are ZERO!
I would settle for a 3,700 pound 45 mpg(US) combined cycle diesel Ford MONDEO Estate that can tow almost 2 tons. If I could just figure out how to get one into the US, NOW.
Oh well, so it goes ...." ......... I can have you a "Ford MONDEO Estate" in about two weeks. I have inside connections with a company known as I.C.T.R. - NOW are you interested?????
Our 1995 Odyssey
Fhs1 says,"Sorry about that Detroit ... you still have a chance IF you start selling what WE are looking for before someone else does!
So, here we are continuing the wait for OUR ... 50 mpg combined average ... ODYSSEY replacement!" ......... Hmmmmm.. Let's see, a vehicle from a Domestic or Foreign Automaker that is the same size of your Odyssey that gets 50 mpg combined. Can you hold your breath for at least 50 more years?????????????????
Under the Hood
GMzip says to Norton..."
You're sooo right...that weren't no family car(69 should jump right on the double negative)." .......... Oh contraire! I understood what Norton meant. GMzip..I have been reading the most excellent dialogue between yourself and Norton. Keep it going! What was the name of the car that had the doors slide into the fenders????????????
Diesel in the US ---- Fhs1
Fhs1 says,"The "foreign" OEMs do NOT feel the need to "push the envelope" on fuel economy ... because that might "wake up" Detroit and alter the status quo that has allowed 35 years of nibbling away Detroit's market share." ............... If all these manufacturers are preparing small cars for this market, you can be sure that several of their rivals are also working on similar vehicles. Are all these entries going to be successful? And are we entering a new era of small cars? I don't think so on either count.
I can't find any sign of a mass market for tiny cars in the U.S. That is, not as long as gasoline here is well under $4 per gallon, unlike in Europe and Asia, where many of these cars originated. Another problem is that the vehicles on our roads are so big that it's a little scary to be driving around in a tiny car.
Price is also an issue. BMW has been successful with its Mini because it can sell a relatively small number of vehicles at a premium price. In this market, small cars usually mean small prices, and that means little or no profits for the manufacturers.
So why are car companies pursuing this market? Well, if they can get top dollar for them, as BMW does with Mini, they may be profitable. Those cars are cute and win points with buyers. Plus they bring down their corporate fuel-efficiency figures and may gain favor with the environmentally conscious.
You never know, it's possible that tiny cars just might become popular in this country. But I don't see that happening. ...... When it comes to The Old BIG THREE losing marhet share to all the foreign automakers of - as you say Fhs1 "alter the status quo that has allowed 35 years of nibbling away Detroit's market share." There are more brands and stiffer competition from foreign brands than ever before, and it was inevitable that the Detroit Three (Chrysler, Ford and General Motors) would have to give up some market share as the sheer number of quality foreign cars hitting our shores increased.
Go back to 1949, when the iconic VW Beetle made its first appearance here. Before that time, few people had even seen a car from across the pond. In the almost 60 years since, nameplates like Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Hyundai and dozensâ€"yes, dozensâ€"more have became familiar to the U.S. car buyer. As their popularity increased, so did their percentage of total salesâ€"it's that simple.
Still, how did this happen? Why has the American carmaker's market share eroded over time? Experts will give you dozens of explanations. But the reality is, the market itself helped create this situation. "It's normal when you see this in a maturating market," explains Jim Hall, vice president of AutoPacific, a top marketing and consulting firm for the automotive industry. "An open market attracts competitors. Over time, the market spreadsâ€"more competitors take their niche and settle in."
That's a fairly straightforward answer. But I'll add that, while Detroit may indeed be losing market share, its newest vehicles really are some of the best in the world. The quality of these cars has really improved, too. According to J.D. Power and Associates, the Big Three's build quality is now nearly equal toâ€"or better, in many casesâ€"than the imports. Imagine that. ........ Fhs1.. do you agree or dis agree with my views on the lost of market share of The Big Three to foreign automakers and also on small cars in America? Also,I apologize for not answering your post last nite as i said i would. Hmmmmm my excuse.. Got in late last night-ate some supper-dranked a few beers- watched a little TV-fell asleep-woke up later-staggered to bed!!!!!!!! Gotta leave for work again! ...Your Move! .......
....... Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4430185/ ........ http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4220155.html
Diesel in the US ---- Fhs1
Fhs1.. Thanks for your response. I will answer you tonight. Gotta go to work now. Thanks again!!!!
Searching for autos by combined average mpg
Fhs1 says,"There is another "combined average mpg" database that goes back to 1984 (by changing the last 4 digits of the link)
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008bymanuf.jsp?year=1984
Just in case anyone is interested ... hope this makes things a little easier." .......... ..
Cheap High MPG Cars: 1984 --
1984 was a high-volume year for high-MPG cars in the USA, as the domestic and import manufacturers produced a range of cars that matched or exceeded the 40 MPG highway mark and met America's thirst for fuel-thrifty vehicles.
General Motors was quite well represented among the domestic manufacturers. Buick offered the Skylark, Skyhawk, Regal, Century. Cadillac had the Cimmarron, while Chevrolet had the Chevette, Cavalier, Celebrity, and Citation, along with a 4-cylinder Camaro and S-10 Pickup. (GMC offered the S15 Pickup, as well.) Oldsmobile had the Cutlass Ciera, Firenza, Cutlass Supreme, and Omega. Pontiac was flush with high-MPG choices, including the 1000, 2000 Sunbird, two-seat Fiero, 6000 Wagon, and the four-cylinder Firebird.
Chrysler-Plymouth offered the Plymouth Colt, Colt Vista, Horizon, Reliant, and Turismo, along with the Dodge twins: Colt, Omni, Aries, Daytona, and Charger, and the tiny but unique Rampage Pickup. Ford's 1984 highest MPG offerings consisted of the Escort, EXP, Laser and Tempo, along with the Lincoln-Mercury Lynx and Topaz.
The Japanese auto manufacturers sold boatloads of cars during 1984, with Honda's Civic, Accord, and Prelude leading the way. Nissan hit its stride with the Pulsar, Sentra, 200SX, Stanza, and 2WD Pickups, while Toyota had the Starlet, Corolla, Tercel, Camry, and 2WD Pickup. Mitsubishi's Precis (also sold as the Dodge and Plymouth Colt), Tredia, Cordia, and Pickup, met or exceeded 40 MPG highway, as did Mazda's GLC, 626, and B2000/2200 Pickup. Subaru and Isuzu hit the mark, as well.
Among European manufacturers, Volkswagen was exceptionally prominent, with diesel models of the Rabbit, Quantum, and Jetta hitting or exceeding the 50 MPG mark. Knowing shoppers also found the Mercedes-Benz 190 in that same vaunted category. ......... Fhs1.. Has there been much of an improvement in mpg when comparing cars from 1984 to 2010?
Could it be that 1984 cars had HIGHER mpg than cars of 2010 from both foreign and domestic. That would be 26 years later!
......Source: http://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/19/super-cheap-high-mpg-cars-1984/Diesel in the US ---- Fhs1
Fhs1.. ,"Now from a NATIONALISTIC economic view:
1) The "above 44 mpg(US) combined average Market Sector" is the only "NEW Frontier" available for expansion in the US! If Detroit and other OEMs want to expand TOTAL market VOLUMES ... that is the only sector that is UNTAPPED for potential EXPANSION! It appears that there is a DEMAND in the range of 20% to 30% already. Some have predicted as high as 36% (maybe 39%) within 5 years. Yet there is nothing at this time from Detroit! Even proposed future offerings seem to be generally below 40 mpg combined average. The "volt" maybe, but it is priced FAR ABOVE the average consumer." ............ According to a recent study from Jato Dynamics, a leading provider of automotive business intelligence, U.S. cars emit 85 percent more carbon dioxide and consume twice as much fuel as European and Japanese cars. The average year-to-date fuel consumption figure for cars, minivans and SUVs in the U.S. market stands at 22.6 mpg, compared with 40.3 mpg in Europe and 40.6 mpg in Japan. Those are staggering differences, and they make us wonder why it will take American automakers until 2020 to reach a mandated average fuel-efficiency rating of 35 mpg, when European and Japanese automakers already do. (That's food for thought, folks.)
Fhs1.. am I correct in saying that the Toyota Prius is The ONLY Car sold in The U.S. that gets 44 above mpg combined average???? Source: http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=745437
Fhs1 says,"Simply put, the "new Det3" have MORE vehicles today in Europe rated above 50 mpg(US) combined [42 by count] than the entire US market has between 31 and 50 mpg(US) combined [36 by count] ... and only 4 of those are from the Det3." ........ Why would you pick the numbers from 31 to 50 mpg (US) combined?? If the numbers was from 30 to 50 mpg (US) combined - would that mean that a lot more Det3 vehicles would make that list?? Funny that you picked from "31 and 50 mpg(US) combined." ...... Your move!
Diesel in the US ---- Fhs1
Fhs1 says,"I've been using "gallons/100 miles" for several years."... I agree that you have. ....... Fhs1 says,"My worst FE vehicle WAS rated 4.17 g/100 miles combined average according to "old" EPA methods and NOW 4.5 g/100 miles, but actually deliver about 4.1 g/100 miles in mixed driving. That is a 95 Odyssey.
My other (primary) consumes (and 2008 EPA rated) 2.6 g/100 miles. It is a 95 Civic CX.
I'd love to replace them with new vehicles with similar FORM/FIT/FUNCTION/RELIABILITY ... BUT better fuel economy, since they are both approaching 200K miles. So far with only standard maintenance except for ONE ignition switch and ONE radiator.
So far there is nothing from Detroit that will "fill the bill" and provide seriously better fuel economy." ...... My 1997 Dodge Ram SST gets 6.89 g/100 miles. I have nearly 207K miles. I have had to do only Standard maintenance so far. From personal experience, it has had Excellent RELIABILITY. It has been maintained very well. I would not enjoy driving a small car or Mini Van even if they get way better "gallons/100 miles" than my Truck. I really enjoy driving my 1997 Dodge Ram SST!! I would love to have a Dodge Viper! Fuel economy is not sooooo important to me as it is to you. To each their own.
Fhs1 says,"Why is fuel economy sooooo important to me?
From a personal point of view, I seriously believe that within the next 5 years fuel will be WELL OVER $5 per gallon. Even at 2 gallons/100 miles, that could easily be well over $1,500 in fuel cost/year at 15k miles/year. That may not be significant to you and many others, but it is to me." ...... If gas is $5 a gallon 5 years from now - I will deal with it then. I will still have my Truck. I do not want a small car due to safety reasons. I could by a used Dodge Charger that would get 18 city - 26 Hwy - 21 combined. Combined that would be 4.76 g/100 miles. .. IIHS: Small Cars Not as Safe as Bigger Ones! Thanks fhs1.. I will address the rest of your post with another post!
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