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We here in Michigan are not 'ganians, but 'ganders
Quote: "I suspect I speak for many Michiganians when I ask..."
If the author cannot properly call us Michiganders, then he certainly is not one of us. As such, he should not try to speak for us either.
I am a proud Michigander, not a "Michiganian" (sic).
Don't ever call me that again.
Otherwise, yes, I agree. To veto a bill simply because one's name is not on it is absurd. If it works, it should pass. Michigan passed the point of ego stroking long ago. Those who still need their ego stroked should be shunted aside so some real work can get done.
JDL:
I stand corrected, because I double-checked. Michigander is the noun; Michiganian the adjective. That said, have never claimed to be "one of us." Was born in Ohio, but was not -- repeat, not -- raised a Buckeye fan. Some things are just too horrible to contemplate.
-- DCH
Budget mess: 'It is time for her to go, and quickly'
She made a mess and couldn't clean it up in 2007. What makes anyone thinks she knows how to do it now? It is time for her to go, and quickly, because she is only going to hurt the state more by her staying as she has no clue but pick up her paycheck out of my pocket.
W:
Go?Go where? Not before the second term ends sometime on January 1, 2011. This, too, shall pass.
-- DCH
'Cutting taxes does not automatically lead to more jobs.' No, but it sure helps.
Mr. Howes, here's a little refresher on Mr. DeVos's tax policy proposals:
1. Eliminate the Michigan Business Tax
2. Eliminate personal property taxes on businesses
3. Replace some of the revenue with some undefined tax that might fall on businesses but would still require massive cuts in funding to schools and local governments.
A false choice? Or simply stating the facts as you choose not to remember them?
Here's a little critical thinking exercise for you. During Granholm's first couple of years in office, the state's personal income tax rate went down until it 3.9% (from 4.4%, which I might add means that the state tax personal income tax rate was higher during the "glory" years of John Engler than it has ever been under Granholm). According to standard conservative tax policy mantra, the effect of that decline in tax rates should have been increased revenues to state government from new jobs from economic growth.
The opposite happened. Personal income tax revenue to the state fell, the economy continued to falter and Michigan continued to lose jobs. This is clear evidence that cutting taxes does not automatically lead to more jobs. Nor did significant cuts in the personal property tax rates in 2007 for commercial and industrial properties lead to more jobs, although it has exacerbated the budget deficits in Lansing. But what solutions do the Mike Bishop's and Dick DeVos's offer to a bad economy? More tax cuts!
Do taxes matter? Sure. But not so much that a personal income tax rate of 4.4% killed the economy under John Engler or a tax rate of 3.9% saved the economy under Jennifer Granholm. But to hear it from commentators like yourself, taxes are the only thing that matter. The truth is that factors like having an educated workforce and a good quality of life (see West Virginia or Mississippi for the alternative) matter as much or more than the obsession with tax rates. You can continue to push the idea that cutting taxes is the route to salvation. But Michigan's recent history clearly shows that whatever ails the state, it's won't be fixed by the simplistic solutions offered by those pushing tax cuts.
NR:
Who are you and what have you done with Mark Brewer? The chairman of the MI Dems is a proven master at selectively depicting parts of policy proposals to score political points and calling it a day. The sad fact about MI politics is that this tactic (hardly his alone) works. DeVos did call for abolishing the Michigan Business Tax because it was a disaster. But he also recommended replacing it with a corporate income tax -- not doing away with business taxes entirely. As for abolishing the personal property tax, it is a demonstrated job killer, which is why Ohio abolished its PPT and adjusted tax rates in other areas. The net effect: Ohio has a more competitive tax load overall, more business investment and a lower jobless rate (even now).
Second, the income tax reduction you cite was a step-down begun under Engler, in dramatically different economic circumstances. Taxes matter (see the success of movie-making tax incentives), but so does a comprehensive blend of taxes (business, personal incomes, graduated or flat, etc.). Spending matters, too; comparative wages and benefits for public employees matter; how and whether a state supports its higher ed institutions matters(MI's spending, adjusted for inflation, is down more than 22 percent over the last five years as Alabama's -- Alabama -- surged 37 percent); how and whether a state chases new business from outside its borders to the exclusion of longtime companies who can't get calls returned by Lansing. This list could go on.
You're right: "simplistic solutions" like tax cuts are not the only answer to what ails Michigan. In fact, cuts may not be the answer at all when it comes to, say, personal income taxes. The nub of the problem is that too many baskets, to borrow an overworn metaphor, are off-limits. Structural reform? Too hard and too threatening to Big Labor. Reworking the MBT -- heck, eliminating the 22-percent surcharge? Too expensive. Aligning the pay and benefits of public and local school employees more closely to national averages? Too anti-union. Comprehensively restructuring Michigan's tax regime? Too likely to result in a net reduction of revenue lest the benchmarking phase show Michigan needs to entertain real change to improve its competitive position.
Instead, we stall, hope and make excuses -- none of which is much of a strategy.
-- DCH
No one sitting in guv's chair could have managed MI's implosion
Mr. Howes: I think we can safely classify it as an "obsession" when you ignore the reality of the actions of Dillon and Bishop in your quest to attack the governor. You're right, you never said the governor "took all summer off." But you also ignored the fact that the Legislature did take off an entire month, leaving themselves little time to get the budget completed on time. But that little fact didn't fit into your "it's the governor's fault" narrative, so it was ignored. As for reports on her actions, I'm sure they are coming from "unbiased" sources. To your comment on her fiscal management, anyone sitting in the governor's chair would have been hard-pressed to managed the implosion of 2 of the Big 3 and the massive downsizing of one of the state's largest industries.
Name one other state that's been through what Michigan has been through. All the while, the governor has tried to balance the state's books without having to resort to massive cuts in services or a Bishop-style slash and burn approach to the budget. I know that the Grover Norquist approach of "drowning government" has a lot of appeal in the circles that you travel but for the average Michigan residents, being left to fend for themselves isn't a very appealing outcome.
NR:
Coupla thoughts: First, if you read my columns with any regularity, you'll know that I've been an equal-opportunity critic of the Legislature and the governor, the Republicans and the Democrats. Leadership in this state is, in general, appalling. It's dominated by petty, economically retrograde, small-beer politics that rely on last-generation solutions (the GOP and its Pavlovian tax mantra) and interest-group protection rackets (the Dems and their loyalty to a labor bench steadily killing its funding source).
Second, I wouldn't quibble, in general, with your characterization of the DeVos tax proposals. But I would quibble with their completeness. In calling for an end to the Michigan Business Tax, perhaps one of the most horrid "reforms" in MI history, he did advocate that a corporate income tax be instituted in its place. Grover Norquist notwithstanding (and, for the record, who cares what he thinks?), the issue in Michigan is comprehensive tax reform -- which this governor has steadfastly refused to entertain.
Third, Michigan isn't alone in bearing the brunt of the Detroit Auto's implosion. Ohio, for one, could make a case; Indiana, less so. But look how they responded ... both before and during the slide. Ohio eliminated its personal property tax because it was a killer for business investment and expansion. Indiana is running a surplus. Both, until the Lehman bankrutpcy 13 months ago, continued to attract auto investment and both have lower jobless rates. Why? Because labor doesn't run their state capitals and, second, because they are retooling the structure of state government, especially in Indiana.
Finally, I have said repeatedly in columns that the governor is not responsible for the implosion of Detroit Auto. But she is responsible for the response of her office and the state bureaucracy, be it the Michigan Economic Development Corp. or the Department of Environmental Quality and its omnipotent ability to stop business expansion dead. When Delphi Corp. went bankrupt four years ago, heralding the beginning of this slide, she issued a screed that read as if he had been written by the United Auto Workers. (If you want a copy, which I still have, I can e-mail it to you.) Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, meanwhile, was in Troy less than 48 hours later trying to a) see what Delphi needed to keep jobs in Indiana and b) lobbying to get Delphi's headquarters to move to his state. Michigan's governor also impacts how state economic development efforts affect existing business and, repeatedly, I hear stories of efforts directed outside the state to the exclusion of those already here. What's that say, anyway?
Marshaling a vigorous defense of the current administration strikes me as akin to defending the hapless Detroit Lions by criticizing its opponents. Web sites are groaning under the weight of proposed solutions -- the Center for Michigan, Citizens Research Council, Business Leaders for Michigan, Mackinac Center for Public Policy, the edit pages of daily newspapers -- and most of them countenance some form of tax increase(s). Which suggests that the problem isn't ideas, it's action.
-- DCH
Response to 'Fair' long on detail. But what's it say?
FAIR: Let's get the numbers and compare, From Washington:
RECOVERY .gov.PLAN
Energy cost............$ 248 Million
SAVE from CRIME........$ ................2. BILLION
Education..............$... 212 MILLION
Vetreans return........$ $.............. 1.2 BILLION
AIRPORTS detroit........$... 52 MILLION
Road a. bridges .......$... 847 MILLION
Agriculture, Finacial services,transportation(what a Laught)
HUD/EDI. Labor/HHS etc..etc..ALL COMING FROM WASHINGTON to MICHIGAN....SO WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTING ..AND NO REASON TO RAISE TAXES>>WE NEED A STATEWIDE AUDIT OF "THE BOOKS".
Good example.Detroit Schools....There are 83,000 Schoolkids "LOST' so most of them have parents and "THEY ALL MOVED OUT OF STATE. REMBER the LANDLORD didnot pay the DTE -bill(over $ 100,000) and the tenatas where forced to move-out..and LEFT the STATE..DO BAD ABOUT THE CENSUS 2010.
Love:
Appreciate the passion, but not sure I get the point(s) or the argument(s).
-- DCH
Guv's budgets more 'fair, beneficial' to MI than GOP's
"Fair and beneficial to the citizens of Michigan?" Her budgets have been much more fair and beneficial to the residents than what Republicans have proposed. If they had their way, we would have had Devos-onomics where businesses would have been exempt from paying any taxes; support for the poor and elderly would have been slashed to nothing; and everyone who wasn't wealthy would have been left to fend for themselves. We've gotten a taste of the kind of Michigan that Mike Bishop and his fellow Republicans want for Michigan. It's ugly, and it's one that voters have rejected in the past and, if offered again, will reject again.
NR:
Ya' know what? You're right: Michigan voters probably would reject such a draconian choice -- had one been offered by Dick DeVos (which it wasn't), much less the policies of the current Senate Republicans. You pose a false choice. The truth is that the past is not a good predictor of the present and future. Options open to Blanchard, Engler or Granholm (early in her term) simply aren't options anymore, short of pushing tax rates to California levels and killing whatever business activity remains.
Would suggest a little more critical thinking and a little less taking things at face value.
-- DCH
Granholm 'has never listened to the people of Michigan'
Novi Reader: Where have you been? Who have you been listening to? Granholm has never provided a balanced budget -- that was fair and beneficial to the citizens of Michigan -- in her several years as the governor. All she has done is enrich her friends like the teachers' union or politically connected. She has never listened to the people of Michigan. She has placed her uncompromising self and the Democratic Party above all else. By the way I am a Demo and, sorry to say, voted for her.
C:
Think you overstate the guv's posture, insofar as it suggests she "enrichs" her friends. Would prefer the verb "protect." And, I suspect, you're not the only Dem expressing regrets these days. In fact, I know you're not.
-- DCH
'Alternative universe' of MI reality in the eye of beholders
What alternative universe is Mr. Howes inhabiting? It wasn't the governor who took all summer off to vacation. It wasn't the governor who waited until the 11th hour and beyond to get around to passing the budget bills. It's not the governor who is sitting on these same bills when Senator Bishop has a constitutional obligation to send those to the Governor. Howes is finger pointing at the governor for holding up the process when she's had her proposed budget out for discussion for months.
We get it Mr. Howes. You're so obsessed with bashing the governor for everything wrong with Lansing that you can't admit that it's the Clown Princes Dillon and Bishop who have led the state into this budget mess, again. Last time I checked, more people voted for Jennifer Granholm than voted for Bishop and Dillon combined. The budget process gives her final say over budget bills (unless the Legislature wants to try a veto override). Prince Andy and Prince Mikey should have given more thought to that fact when they were back behind closed doors cooking up their palace plot. At least the Governor understands her role in the budget process. Too bad the Clown Princes are still figuring theirs out.
NR:
Am sure the governor appreciates you flying wing-man, complete with pot shots about my being "obsessed" with "bashing the governor." If I'm obsessed with anything, it's the desperate search for executive leadership in the ninth year of Michigan's "Lost Decade."
Never said the governor "took all summer off" and have never questioned once her work ethic. But, people involved in the process tell me, the guv has done the slow walk on bridging the gap(s) in the budget, mostly because working the process in advance with the speaker and the Senate majority leader would weaken her leverage to get what she wants on deadline.
Finally, it's mildly stunning that there are people out there still ready and willing to defend the guv's fiscal management, despite the worst economic record of any sitting governor this decade. Talk about an alternative universe. But it's not particularly surprising; it's emblematic of the political-business culture that helped bring Michigan to where it is -- and likely will keep it here.
-- DCH
The Guv
Ditto Almanian's comment.
I'll be a DH Ditto Head - A DH DH.
Unreal
DH, my reaction was exactly the same as yours. Unreal. They have a deal, and now she flies in on her broomstick to become involved? Please just go away, Madame Governor. The end of her term cannot come soon enough - the worst governor of this once great state in my 47 years on this planet. The absolute opposite of a leader.
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