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Re: Kids need both parents
Jdlech-Armada,
I just read your posting in response to Larry Herren's entry ad have a few thoughts.
I, frankly, am not sure if you are a legitimate responder or are posing as one. Regardless, there are a few things I would like to say to you. First, If you experience the kind of internal struggle that you imply that you deal with I would strongly suggest that you seek competent therapeutic services as soon as possible and stay in therapy to fully resolve any unresolved issues you have given your own upbringing. It would first and foremost be in your best interest and by that it would be in the best interest of your children. Secondly, the premise that the only qualified parent is an adult who experienced an "optimal" upbringing would disqualify most of us. Some of the best parents I have encountered both personally and professionally (I have been a child and family therapist for 25 yrs.) have had childhoods that would make what you describe seem like a walk in the park. Don't underestimate yourself or your children, children are very resilient. Thirdly, your situation, at least as you describe, is a shinning example of just how a shared parenting perspective can indeed work. You described flexibility in access to your children between you and your ex and the children have adapted well. Any judge worth his or her salt would begin from a shared/equal parenting perspective unless and until there is clear and convincing evidence that to have such an arrangement would be detrimental to the children. In your situation, again as you have described, it appears to be working just fine. Keep up the good work you are doing with your children and the cycle of violence CAN stop through you.
Kids Need Both Parents
Larry,
As usual, you have made an important argument for the development co-parenting as it is truly in the best interest of children. Others who have commented have added important points to this conversation. The issue I have is with the existing legislation. While it calls a frequency of time between parents that will foster an ongoing relationship, it simply falls short too many times. The language to vague as to allow for unwarranted litigation to thwart co-parenting efforts. Of this I know you are painfully aware of, as are the numerous other parents who find themselves having to struggle in the court system to stay involved in their children's lives. The just and right thing to do is to modify the legislation so that it requires judges to begin with the presumption of "Equal Parenting Time". Only when there is clear and convincing evidence that this would be contrary to the best interests of the child would equal time between parents be modified. Until such change occurs you can expect that the one group whose best interests are being met in a consistent basis are the family law attorneys.
No question we need legislation in this matter but interestingly, while shared parenting bills are getting increased attention, many in legislation throw it back on the Court, rationalizing that there's already laws on the books calling for shared parenting to be a presumption but the courts disrespect that fact. I've herd from more than one judge, however, that their role is one of discretion in following existing law and if people want laws changed, they need to take it up with the legislation. My opinion is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There is, for example, pretty significant language in the law that speaks to shared parenting being in the best interest of children but it remains a judge's discretion in when and how to apply it. Trends certainly suggest a growing number on the Bench have become enlightened and start from a presumption that kids need the healthy and active involvement of both parents. But there remains those who when parents can't agree, will fall back to a gender bias protocol that often disenfranchises an otherwise good and willing parent which, as we understand, is highly detrimental to children.
But as you've pointed out, the bottom line is we need a system that serves and encourages what we clearly understand to be the in best interest of children. We need to some how ensure that there is accountability in discretion and parents, and kids, are afforded a process that allows good and willing parents equal access and participation in parenting. Further, that to achieve such an end doesn't require long drawn out and expensive litigation. Rest assured, when that becomes the system, we'll see a lot less fighting.
As always, thanks for your insightful comments, they're sincerely valued.
Larry
Sportsmanship.
Larry,
MSU is as fine a school as you will find in East Lansing and charitable too! Take for example how well they treated their recent guests from CMU! UM isn't nearly as gracious, at least until they play the Spartans! Sparty On!
Sportsmanship.
Larry,
MSU is as fine a school as you will find in East Lansing and charitable too! Take for example how well they treated their recent guests from CMU! UM isn't nearly as gracious, at least until they play the Spartans! Sparty On!
Sportsmanship.
Larry,
Great subject. As you may have noted the NCAA asked colleges and university teams last weekend to demonstrate good sportsmanship by a pre-game handshake or other appropriate gesture. Of the games I watched it was quite impressive. In fact, as a UM fan, I have to admit that the "Other school", OSU actually ran out of the tunnel with the opposition. Something that had never happened in Columbus before. It was avery fine gesture. I do believe that we as parents and coaches need to teach good sportsmanship by both word AND deed and you outlined some of the guiding principles for the development of sportsmanship. I also believe that good sportsmanship can allow for some age appropriate good natured "trash talk". Some times among friends this is more enjoyable than the actual game itself! (as you and I have been known to engage in occasionally) To be able to do this, however, one has to be respectful of each other to know where certain lines are that should not be crossed least someone gets offended and a friendly relationship suffers. Unfortunately, this skill has been a somewhat dying art, as we have seen exhibited in recent months among our elected officials.
I also think that in some ways we do our children a disservice in this area by "over supervising" them. I am old enough now to recall the many summer days, as well as fall and winter, playing various game, baseball, football, etc. for hours on end with not an adult in sight. Somehow everyone learned quickly how to resolve conflicts, decide on rules, avoid making the kid with the ball and/or bat too mad so that everyone could enjoy playing together. When we as adults are too involved in the structuring of every interaction that our children have we rob them of an opportunity to learn these very valuable skills. And after all, learning how to play nice together is at the very heart of good sportsmanship.
I take my hat off to the NCAA for encouraging Universities to model a difference and as well, to those schools that have stepped up to do so. But with all due respect, I can't see U. of M. and OSU running through a tunnel together, I have to believe Wolverine Nation draws a line on something like that!
You bring up some excellent points though. One is with regard to "good natured trash talk;" I agree that good sportsmanship allows for it but as you've also pointed out, it needs to occur in the framework of fun and respect to where lines are drawn before someone experiences it as offensive. That's why good modeling to our children is so important; learning where to draw lines in social interactions as well as so many other aspects of life is what they're still in the process of learning how to do and what we as parents have been in trusted to teach them.
I also agree that like most anything else, learning how to effectively interact with others comes through experience but we do, in fact, take opportunities for experience away, or at least significantly dilute it, when we over supervise or structure our children's time and interactions. You've done a great job in describing how. What do others think?
And P.S. to my good friend Robert in New Orleans, how did such a great Dad and intelligent individual as yourself slip up to have their otherwise beautiful and intelligent daughter end up attending college at MSU?!
Larry
Sportsmanship.
Larry,
Great subject. As you may have noted the NCAA asked colleges and university teams last weekend to demonstrate good sportsmanship by a pre-game handshake or other appropriate gesture. Of the games I watched it was quite impressive. In fact, as a UM fan, I have to admit that the "Other school", OSU actually ran out of the tunnel with the opposition. Something that had never happened in Columbus before. It was avery fine gesture. I do believe that we as parents and coaches need to teach good sportsmanship by both word AND deed and you outlined some of the guiding principles for the development of sportsmanship. I also believe that good sportsmanship can allow for some age appropriate good natured "trash talk". Some times among friends this is more enjoyable than the actual game itself! (as you and I have been known to engage in occasionally) To be able to do this, however, one has to be respectful of each other to know where certain lines are that should not be crossed least someone gets offended and a friendly relationship suffers. Unfortunately, this skill has been a somewhat dying art, as we have seen exhibited in recent months among our elected officials.
I also think that in some ways we do our children a disservice in this area by "over supervising" them. I am old enough now to recall the many summer days, as well as fall and winter, playing various game, baseball, football, etc. for hours on end with not an adult in sight. Somehow everyone learned quickly how to resolve conflicts, decide on rules, avoid making the kid with the ball and/or bat too mad so that everyone could enjoy playing together. When we as adults are too involved in the structuring of every interaction that our children have we rob them of an opportunity to learn these very valuable skills. And after all, learning how to play nice together is at the very heart of good sportsmanship.
Roles of Fathers
Larry and Dadofthree,
I think you both are correct that good parenting is more than the contribution of
DNA . Step parents, adoptive parents are certainly capable of developing loving and caring relationships with the children they parent. While Larry is also correct that there are some positive changes occurring in the family court system, albeit all too slowly, it is difficult to ignore the bias that remains. It does appear that the courts value one source of DNA other the other as though one half of the chromosomal contribution is irrelevant. That remains a travesty.
Dad's Time
Larry, once agin you have addressed a fundamental aspect of parenting... spending time with your children. Too often parents do not spend sufficient time with their children and as a result opportunities are missed that are so beneficial for a child. Shame on a parent who does not take the time to be with their child. Ten times the shame on the parent who attempts to place a wedge between their child and the other parent. This is the antithesis of good parenting... doing things that are very much damaging to your child. Every parent, like yourself, who deals with the struggles of parenting in a non intact family constellation and prioritizes his or her child above all else deserves the utmost respect and admiration. I know that the children love and respect parents who do so. I know that DJ loves and respects you for doing so and he is much better off as a result.
Happy Early Father's Day
As usual, you've made several important points including the fact that whether parents are married or unmarried, children need real time in healthy parenting with both parents. It's been my experience, in fact, that it's far too often married parents who somehow lose perspective of this and leave the bulk of primary parenting to one or the other. Then a divorce ensues which seems to be the wake up call that the children need, and always did need, the active and equal involvement of both parents. Again, good parenting recognizes this and makes an effort to that end, regardless of a marital status. Good parenting sets boundaries and doesn't allow the dissolving of one relationship or the conflict within one to contaminate the relationship and parenting a child still needs from each of their parents.
I might add that from what I've observed, there's a new generation of parenting upon us and they're creating new trends in parenting that include sharing primary parenting roles. It's refreshing to see dads, for example, walking their infants in strollers, carrying them in stores, participating at school events and have you noticed the growing number of changing stations in the men's restrooms?! I don't remember seeing that in the 1970's...
Happy Fathers Day to you and thanks for your comments on this matter. As always, your insights and friendship is deeply valued.
Larry
Pets
Larry,
As sad as it is when we lose a pet it is, as you have pointed out, one of those bittersweet moments when we as fathers get to share a very important life lesson with our children. I know that DJ loved and cared for Cash and I know he loves and cares for Waylon. But whether it is a fish, turtle or dog coming into contact with the loss of a love object is something that we all have and will face. You helped DJ to understand life's beautiful reality in a way that he could understand and in a manner only a father can do. He will always remember Cash and this experience and as a result love people in his life all the more.
Bob
Dead Beat Or Dead Broke
Larry,
You have, as usual, brought up several very important points. I will summarize by saying that the FOC has very antiquainted views of both the needs of chidren and the role of fathers. Factor in the financial interest of the various stakeholders and it isn't difficult to see why justice for children is so slow in coming.
To quote the late and great Marvin Gaye "...make me want to holler..."
Bob
Deadbeat or Dead Broke?
Larry,
You and the other responders to Kevin O'Shea's posting are making some very important points. Mothers who are not custodial parents and are ordered to pay child support do not pay at a rate three times higher than non-custodial fathers. The reason this does not get much play in the media is many fold but is probably based in the fact that first there are so few mothers who are not custodial parents (an indication of the gender bias in Family Court), and even fewer mothers when not custodial who ordered to make child support payments.
I think it would be useful to continue to have a forum such as this to improve the awareness of this and similar issues as it is so important in the lives of or children. It should not be ignored by a parenting blog. Good job Kevin, Larry and all posters!
"Deadbeat Dads"
Kevin,
Great post with some very thought provoking comments already made. I think "deadbeat" is a presumptive term. Those who use it are typically ignorant of the labyrinth called FOC and the process by which arrearages and therefore"deadbeats" are manufactured. It is doubling insulting to be considered a deadbeat upon being laid off. In my experience growing up as well as those of my peers when our families had financial struggles for one reason or another spending changed. We did not have funds to go to the movies, buy unneeded things. The flow of money to and for us children shifted. It is remarkable to me that the FOC does not appear to be understanding the ways that families function when they do not modify support in the face of economic down turns. Dad still has to produce the same amount of child support even though his job has been eliminated and shipped overseas. Just one of the many ways "Deadbeats' are created.
Daddy-Style Parenting
Larry, Great Blog!
It has long been known that dads bring a different style to parenting and it is refreshing that current research continues to validate this. I have experienced this personally with my own daughter as she was growing up to be a very confident and capable young woman. I am now seeing it with you and your son.
I have had the pleasure to watch the two of you together and have seen how D.J. is growing into a bright, social and confident boy. This is a testament to the impact men have in the lives of children that is so important to optimal development.
Give DJ a hug for me!
Bob
rfox
Larry,
As you know I do not share all of your opinions about the source of "spiritual" things but being a parent is by far the most transcendent experience anyone can have. I share your experience of being changed in the process of parenting. I cannot imagine anyone who is actively involved in parenting not being moved and altered in so many meaningful ways.It is truly a beautiful thing and I know you are experiencing this with DJ. Even through the dreaded teen years you are going to experience so many wonderful things and discover more about yourself than you could have imagined.
Bob
baby boot camp
Kevin, This is two in a Row! I absolutely agree with you. In fact I have long thought that, as parenting is easily the most important thing we will ever do, successfully completing a class on child rearing/parenting should be a requirement of graduating high school and all students would be required to attend.
Rfox
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